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Author Topic:   Fine tuning/ programming
DC85
Member
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 106 of 123 (548408)
02-27-2010 2:06 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by Pauline
02-27-2010 12:50 PM


I know this is off topic but I felt the need to answer these. If it persists I will have no problem relocating the post to a new thread

The God of the Bible is worshipped by far more people than the FSM.
This is irrelevant there are a large portion of people who believe humans have never been to the moon but that doesn't give the argument any weight.

There is historical evidence to back up Jesus' physical, human existence.
I may ask you to present this in another topic as I suspect many of you're "historical" evidence have been discredited such Josephus.

Why do you use B.C and A.D
Because society was up until a few centuries ago based around beliefs? Why bother to change the system? Seems pointless to do such a thing

The Bible was written about one man- Jesus Christ; 40 human beings over a span of 1500 years, never having lived in the same era, all wrote about one man.
I can make the same argument of many ancient and modern religions. These may be stories passed on a written down by people who already believed not to mention the similarities between other stories of other religions much older then Christianity. Ever play the game when you were a child "telephone" where you sit in a circle and whisper in you neighbor's ear?

Today, people report feeling a sense of peace and hope when they believe in Jesus.
As does anyone who believes in any other belief system. I suspect this is no different then then that feeling you got with your first love. It "feels" like you were meant to be together. I call it wishful thinking.

As an atheist, why do think murder is "bad" and charity is "love"? Why a sense of morality?

Because anything immoral causes pain and suffering. I do not like to feel pain or to suffer... Why should I want to do it anyone else? I don't want my wallet stolen because I will suffer... So I don't go around stealing wallets.

When you dissect finch tummies, you find the same food stuff

This is not true. The galpogos Finches diets range from exclusively insects to seeds. How would this help your argument if it wasn't the case ?

Why don't other species like gila monsters migrate too? Why only birds
Many mammals in herds migrate also evidence shows many dinosaurs migrated. Why would all species keep this adaptation if there is no stresses on the species to keep migrating? Many Canadian geese here in Virginia never migrate back north... These geese either through some mutation or lack of social direction do not migrate and seem to not be harmed by not doing so.

Edited by DC85, : spelling


This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Pauline, posted 02-27-2010 12:50 PM Pauline has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by Pauline, posted 02-27-2010 5:46 PM DC85 has responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16095
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 107 of 123 (548409)
02-27-2010 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by Pauline
02-27-2010 12:50 PM


Well, now you're just making mistakes about biology almost at random.

In some cases you don't even bother making the mistake, you merely allude to it. In what way would you like to be wrong about Archaeopteryx? You just indicate in passing that there's some sort of mistake you want to make.

As for the rest of it ... sheesh. You're wrong about finches, you're wrong about irreducible complexity ... and how can anyone not know that there are things other than birds which migrate? This presents us once more with the strangest paradox of creationism --- that creationists are obsessed with a subject, biology, that they aren't remotely interested in.

We must remember that this comes from the guy who confidently assured us that tetanus was not caused by bacteria. Did it never occur to you to find out about the things you're talking about before talking about them? It might prevent you from saying things that are hopelessly wrong.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Pauline, posted 02-27-2010 12:50 PM Pauline has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by Pauline, posted 02-27-2010 5:57 PM Dr Adequate has responded

  
Pauline
Member (Idle past 1898 days)
Posts: 283
Joined: 07-07-2008


Message 108 of 123 (548445)
02-27-2010 5:46 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by DC85
02-27-2010 2:06 PM


I know this is off topic but I felt the need to answer these. If it persists I will have no problem relocating the post to a new thread

Oh please, do it brother, feel free to prolong this pseudo-discussion. I returned to this wonderful thread after 5 months just so that you, DC85, would grace me with your answers. Please go ahead.

(Goodness gracious)

This is irrelevant there are a large portion of people who believe humans have never been to the moon but that doesn't give the argument any weight.

In a population of 100 people, if 99 believe X to be true and 1 doesn't, what do you infer about X? 99= Christianity; 1=FSM Does that not imply anything at all to you? If it doesn't, I'm sorry, but it does to me.

I may ask you to present this in another topic as I suspect many of you're "historical" evidence have been discredited such Josephus.

I will if you want me to. But please, work on your english....you're historical? discredited such Josephus? Are you the one who went to the moon and got your cognition messed up or what?

(JK )

Because society was up until a few centuries ago based around beliefs?

Again, based "around" beliefs. Anyway, society actually majorly drifted away from being based on beliefs since Galileo's gallant advances in astronomy. We've actually been moving away from beliefs towards science ever since man's inception. Mankind originally was a theocratic society, then a tool-using society, then a technocratic society, and finally a technopoly society (monopoly of technology) Yet, we have B.C and A.D. Simply because it is legitimate to divide history based on a phenomenal man's existence.

I can make the same argument of many ancient and modern religions. These may be stories passed on a written down by people who already believed not to mention the similarities between other stories of other religions much older then Christianity. Ever play the game when you were a child "telephone" where you sit in a circle and whisper in you neighbor's ear?

-Okay, make your argument for other religions then, I'd like to hear it.

-The last kid knows what the first kid says even though he never heard it first hand. Should there be no intermediate messengers, he would never have known.

- The Bible is the story of man from his creation to what will happen to the earth when God returns. Information in the Bible was conveyed to its authors in segments. No one Bilical author knew from A-->Z. Prophecies were made by various prophets. Revelation was given to John. The Ten commandments to Moses. Its all one long story over a period of 1500 years written in one book in segments. For your sake lets suppose moses was the first guy who "invented" Jehovah and wrote this neat story about the ten commandments. Why do some people who have never even heard about Moses write about the same Jehovah? Like Malachi. Malachi is regarded as the youngest OT book. And there's debate between Job and Pentateuch for the oldest.
Why do both Job and Malachi give distinct (mind you, not contradictory) information about the same Jehovah? And why do the prophetic books tell something completely new about Jehovah (IOW, not what moses said, or joshua said)? No one Biblical author contradicts another. How is this possible in myths? How come 40 men agree with each other even though they never saw another?

I call it wishful thinking.

Call it whatever you like. You have a tongue. You don't have to call it what I call it. Infact I don't expect you to call it what I call it because you don't even know what feeling I'm talking about. OF course you call it something else than it really is.

I don't want my wallet stolen because I will suffer...

Aww, but if you don't want your wallet to be stolen, the thief will suffer! As a moral atheist, do you not want this earth to be a better place for everyone? Maybe the thief is a poor guy who needs ameal and maybe you own a mercedes. Where's your sense of equality? Why is the thief not entitled to your wallet? God doesn't do much for us, right? Why don't you atleast save the day?

This is not true.

I read it. Then what is true?

Many mammals in herds migrate also evidence shows many dinosaurs migrated. Why would all species keep this adaptation if there is no stresses on the species to keep migrating? Many Canadian geese here in Virginia never migrate back north... These geese either through some mutation or lack of social direction do not migrate and seem to not be harmed by not doing so.

Well, I feel a stress to migrate. I wish my genome could have a mutation for migration when it gets too cold for me. You see my whole point is not why birds migrate..its why don't cats? And what do you define as "stress to migrate"?

Edited by Dr. Sing, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by DC85, posted 02-27-2010 2:06 PM DC85 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by lyx2no, posted 02-27-2010 6:26 PM Pauline has responded
 Message 117 by DC85, posted 02-27-2010 9:14 PM Pauline has not yet responded

    
Pauline
Member (Idle past 1898 days)
Posts: 283
Joined: 07-07-2008


Message 109 of 123 (548447)
02-27-2010 5:57 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by Dr Adequate
02-27-2010 2:31 PM


Well, now you're just making mistakes about biology almost at random.

In some cases you don't even bother making the mistake, you merely allude to it. In what way would you like to be wrong about Archaeopteryx? You just indicate in passing that there's some sort of mistake you want to make.

As for the rest of it ... sheesh. You're wrong about finches, you're wrong about irreducible complexity ... and how can anyone not know that there are things other than birds which migrate? This presents us once more with the strangest paradox of creationism --- that creationists are obsessed with a subject, biology, that they aren't remotely interested in.

Okay. Great. Thanks.

We must remember that this comes from the guy who confidently assured us that tetanus was not caused by bacteria

Please shut up. I never confidently assured you. I took notice of my poor analysis of one phrase, apologized for it, and shut up and listened to you guys. Tetanus is caused by bacteria. You want to know its name? its Clostridium tetani. THATS proof that you are interested in ad hominem attacks more than the discussion.

Also, I'm a woman.

Edited by Dr. Sing, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-27-2010 2:31 PM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-27-2010 6:15 PM Pauline has responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16095
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 110 of 123 (548453)
02-27-2010 6:15 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by Pauline
02-27-2010 5:57 PM


Okay. Great. Thanks.

Please shut up.

Ah yes, Christian apologetics at their finest.

I never confidently assured you.

Let me quote you:

Dr Sing writes:

FYI, tetanus is not caused by bacteria or virus. Infact, tetanus is a direct result of bad nervous input (to put it is layman's terms). I suggest you do some research before asking questions like this.

You were confident to the point of being patronizing ("in layman's terms" forsooth, and "I suggest you do some research"). If you spend a few seconds taking your own advice and researching the subjects on which you wish to bloviate, you would bear false witness less often.

THATS proof that you are interested in ad hominem attacks more than the discussion.

Pointing out that you're wrong is not an ad hominem attack. Pointing out why you're wrong (i.e. that you've made no effort to be right) was intended as helpful advice. If you research the things you post about, then you will in fact be wrong less often. If you don't, then you're only ever going to be right by accident.

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Pauline, posted 02-27-2010 5:57 PM Pauline has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by Pauline, posted 02-27-2010 6:50 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded
 Message 114 by Pauline, posted 02-27-2010 7:31 PM Dr Adequate has responded

  
lyx2no
Member (Idle past 2879 days)
Posts: 1277
From: A vast, undifferentiated plane.
Joined: 02-28-2008


Message 111 of 123 (548455)
02-27-2010 6:26 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by Pauline
02-27-2010 5:46 PM


Telephone
In a population of 100 people, if 99 believe X to be true and 1 doesn't, what do you infer about X? 99= Christianity; 1=FSM Does that not imply anything at all to you? If it doesn't, I'm sorry, but it does to me.

Did the Earth change shape at some time between the Neolithic and the Renaissance when the Spherical Earthers grew to outnumber the Flat Earthers? Did this happen in 4350 B.P. by any chance causing a great flood? I think you're on to something big.

-The last kid knows what the first kid says even though he never heard it first hand. Should there be no intermediate messengers, he would never have known.

The lesson to be learned form Telephone is that the last kid does not know what the first kid said. Rarely is a message so slightly distorted as to be recognizable by the time it gets to the end. "Three rubber fish bit the bullet" can easily turn into "Some robbers wished for rain." The last kid would never know about the fish or their fate.

But please, work on your english [sic]...


You are now a million miles away from where you were in space-time when you started reading this sentence.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Pauline, posted 02-27-2010 5:46 PM Pauline has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by Pauline, posted 02-27-2010 7:28 PM lyx2no has not yet responded

  
Pauline
Member (Idle past 1898 days)
Posts: 283
Joined: 07-07-2008


Message 112 of 123 (548461)
02-27-2010 6:50 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by Dr Adequate
02-27-2010 6:15 PM


dr A,

did I not apologize for my error?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-27-2010 6:15 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

    
Pauline
Member (Idle past 1898 days)
Posts: 283
Joined: 07-07-2008


Message 113 of 123 (548466)
02-27-2010 7:28 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by lyx2no
02-27-2010 6:26 PM


Re: Telephone
----

Edited by Dr. Sing, : regained my composure


This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by lyx2no, posted 02-27-2010 6:26 PM lyx2no has not yet responded

    
Pauline
Member (Idle past 1898 days)
Posts: 283
Joined: 07-07-2008


Message 114 of 123 (548467)
02-27-2010 7:31 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by Dr Adequate
02-27-2010 6:15 PM


You were confident to the point of being patronizing ("in layman's terms" forsooth, and "I suggest you do some research").

About the phrase "in layman's terms", I used it because "I" am not a medical expert not because I was trying to demean you.

If that offended you, sincere apologies.

You know, a lot of what you say offends me too, Dr A. I don't even think you realize it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-27-2010 6:15 PM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-27-2010 8:18 PM Pauline has responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16095
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 115 of 123 (548479)
02-27-2010 8:18 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by Pauline
02-27-2010 7:31 PM


About the phrase "in layman's terms", I used it because "I" am not a medical expert not because I was trying to demean you.

If that offended you, sincere apologies.

You weren't talking to me, and I'm not offended. I'm just advising you that you should try to be right before getting on your high horse.

You know, a lot of what you say offends me too, Dr A. I don't even think you realize it.

Ah, you wait 'til I start in with the sticks and stones.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by Pauline, posted 02-27-2010 7:31 PM Pauline has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by Pauline, posted 02-27-2010 9:00 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
Pauline
Member (Idle past 1898 days)
Posts: 283
Joined: 07-07-2008


Message 116 of 123 (548485)
02-27-2010 9:00 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by Dr Adequate
02-27-2010 8:18 PM


Are you an atheist?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-27-2010 8:18 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

    
DC85
Member
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 117 of 123 (548487)
02-27-2010 9:14 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by Pauline
02-27-2010 5:46 PM


In a population of 100 people, if 99 believe X to be true and 1 doesn't, what do you infer about X? 99= Christianity; 1=FSM Does that not imply anything at all to you? If it doesn't, I'm sorry, but it does to me.
Why would it? Do you not have your own mind? A large portion of Americans believe George Washington had wooden teeth. That doesn't make it true.

will if you want me to. But please, work on your english....you're historical?
I changed that sentence around a few times and it did at one time mean "you are" . Either way I'm a science person and never have been great with english. When I type fast it hardly seems important. I'm sorry if it annoys you. Your ignorance of basic Biology tends to annoy me.

What I did mean to say is Josephus has been discredited so I do hope you have something better.

) Yet, we have B.C and A.D. Simply because it is legitimate to divide history based on a phenomenal man's existence.
No we have this Divide because people believed there was a phenomenal man. It's pointless to change the system. What would be the point? I for one could care less as long as everyone knows when I'm talking about.

Okay, make your argument for other religions then, I'd like to hear it.
I wouldn't have to. Talk to anyone who isn't Chrisitan. They all get that warm fuzzy comfort feeling from beliefs.

call it whatever you like. You have a tongue. You don't have to call it what I call it. Infact I don't expect you to call it what I call it because you don't even know what feeling I'm talking about. OF course you call it something else than it really is.

How do you know what I've felt? I was a Christian and honestly beileved I felt Jesus in my heart. It was a very hard feeling to shake just like my first love was. I realized that they both were wishful thinking on my part . I wanted them to be true so I deluded myself into believing they were true. You're of course going to pull crap out like "If you really felt it you wouldn't have turned away" but you would be making assumptions about my feelings you know nothing about.

Aww, but if you don't want your wallet to be stolen, the thief will suffer! As a moral atheist, do you not want this earth to be a better place for everyone?
Of course I do in American politics I would be called a "bleeding heart".

he thief is a poor guy who needs ameal and maybe you own a mercedes.wheree's your sense of equality?

That's fine where is yours?


Why is the thief not entitled to your wallet?
Why not? Because your God said so? He might very well need it and that's where morallty gets sketchy. However my Morals are based on emotions through feeling pain of my own and the pain of others. Yours are because "God said so".I think my view of morality makes more sense for everyone then yours does.

God doesn't do much for us, right?
You said it... I would never makes such a claim as I do not believe such a thing exists

I read it. Then what is true?
Some finches eat only seeds. Some Finches eat only insects. That's why it isn't true.

. You see my whole point is not why birds migrate..its why don't cats? And what do you define as "stress to migrate"?
Many species have adapted to the same stresses with different adaptations for instance bears Hibernate. I don't understand how birds migrating and other species not doing the same disproves evolution. Why should cats migrate because everything evolved? Please explain your logic.

Edited by DC85, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Pauline, posted 02-27-2010 5:46 PM Pauline has not yet responded

    
Pauline
Member (Idle past 1898 days)
Posts: 283
Joined: 07-07-2008


Message 118 of 123 (548490)
02-27-2010 9:20 PM


I do not want to take part in this discussion anymore.
I have returned to close the thing because I felt like my last exit was abrupt.
I've apologized.
I've also seen that this debate is going nowhere.
That's it.
Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by DC85, posted 02-27-2010 9:31 PM Pauline has responded
 Message 122 by ThinkDifferent, posted 03-11-2010 8:01 PM Pauline has not yet responded

    
DC85
Member
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 119 of 123 (548496)
02-27-2010 9:31 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by Pauline
02-27-2010 9:20 PM


I've also seen that this debate is going nowhere.
That's it.
They usually don't if one of person isn't educated on the topic , refuses to use rational arguments or listen to rational arguments

Edited by DC85, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by Pauline, posted 02-27-2010 9:20 PM Pauline has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by Pauline, posted 02-27-2010 9:45 PM DC85 has responded

    
Pauline
Member (Idle past 1898 days)
Posts: 283
Joined: 07-07-2008


Message 120 of 123 (548501)
02-27-2010 9:45 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by DC85
02-27-2010 9:31 PM


Yeah, I know what you mean. This Dr Adequate needs to change his thinking...

Listen DC, I know what you really mean. And I'm not offended actually. This is pretty much what I prepare myself to encounter on these forums. Hatred.

Its fine.

May God bless you!

-Dr. Sing


This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by DC85, posted 02-27-2010 9:31 PM DC85 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by DC85, posted 02-27-2010 10:17 PM Pauline has not yet responded

    
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