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Author Topic:   Unintelligent design (recurrent laryngeal nerve)
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 329 of 480 (566588)
06-25-2010 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 328 by slevesque
06-25-2010 1:35 PM


Re: We're still waiting
I hope you see where I am going with this. We aren't sorting out a pile of evidence in a way that ''this evidence supports evolution'' and ''this evidence supports ID''. It is about taking the whole pile as a totality, and asking ''Which hypothesis fits this whole collection of data the best?''. I would answer: Intelligent Design. And you and Coyote would answer: The theory of Evolution. That's all.
One word - Prediction.
I have never yet seen an IDist or creationist make any sort of falsifiable prediction that is a logical consequence of their theory.
That is how science progresses. That is how competing scientific theories are evaluated and filtered.
The theory of evolution can point to a multiplicity of verified and verifiable predictions.
ID - unless you can show otherwise - is an exercise in post-hoc interpretation in such a way that any theory flexible enough can remain technically unfalsified.
The predictions of ToE need to be compared and contrasted with those of whatever alternative is being proposed and ultimately that is the only scientifically demonstrable method of evaluating theories.
No?

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 Message 328 by slevesque, posted 06-25-2010 1:35 PM slevesque has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 331 by slevesque, posted 06-25-2010 1:50 PM Straggler has replied

Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 334 of 480 (566596)
06-25-2010 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 331 by slevesque
06-25-2010 1:50 PM


Re: We're still waiting
And how does that distinguish your theory from the ToE prediction regarding this same phenomenon?
What we are looking for is predictive means of distinguishing the competing validity of two theories - Yes?
Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

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Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 336 of 480 (566599)
06-25-2010 2:19 PM
Reply to: Message 335 by Percy
06-25-2010 2:15 PM


Re: We're still waiting
Exactly.
A scientific prediction should lead to the discovery of new evidence relevant to understanding the question at hand.

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Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 343 of 480 (566613)
06-25-2010 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 341 by slevesque
06-25-2010 2:41 PM


Re: We're still waiting
Has ID ever made a prediction that has been verified?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 341 by slevesque, posted 06-25-2010 2:41 PM slevesque has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 345 by slevesque, posted 06-25-2010 2:52 PM Straggler has replied

Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 356 of 480 (566628)
06-25-2010 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 345 by slevesque
06-25-2010 2:52 PM


Re: We're still waiting
My prediction is legitimate
Only if "we will discover it one day" and "I can explain the predicted and verified results of the competing theory" are taken on some sort of faith.
But as I am showing, ID is, in theory, capable of being the source of a prediction.
Two competing theories -
One makes predictions that have been verified and which have led to the discovery of new evidence that itself has led to new falsifiable predictions which has again led to new evidence etc. etc. The scientific method of progress in action.
The other theory leads to no verified predictions and simply states that "one day" it''s predictions will be borne out whilst still claiming that it is a valid theory because all of the predicted results of the theory it is competing with can be explained by means of post-hoc interpretation.
I say no contest. But which do you consider superior?

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Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 358 of 480 (566636)
06-25-2010 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 357 by slevesque
06-25-2010 3:21 PM


Discovery
Let's put it another way.
Has ID theory ever resulted in a discovery?
You can blather on about predicting unknown evidence all you want but the crunch point of a scientific theory is essentially discovery (by means of prediction) - That is the yardstick.
If ID has never ever led to a single discovery then on what basis can it possibly be advocated scientifically?
Has an ID "scientist" ever discovered anything? Ever?

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 Message 357 by slevesque, posted 06-25-2010 3:21 PM slevesque has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 360 by slevesque, posted 06-25-2010 3:38 PM Straggler has replied
 Message 361 by Coyote, posted 06-25-2010 3:40 PM Straggler has not replied

Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 362 of 480 (566646)
06-25-2010 3:42 PM
Reply to: Message 360 by slevesque
06-25-2010 3:38 PM


Re: Discovery
So not a single ID/creationist discovery then.
Do you think evolutionary theory is equally devoid of discovery?
Or do you just think that discovery isn't a particularly important measure of the worth of a scientific theory?

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