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Author Topic:   Unintelligent design (recurrent laryngeal nerve)
ICdesign
Member (Idle past 4824 days)
Posts: 360
From: Phoenix Arizona USA
Joined: 03-10-2007


Message 420 of 480 (568197)
07-04-2010 8:57 PM


burden of proof
I find it amusing how you guys point to some design feature in the eye or like this laryngeal nerve as proof that there is no intelligent designer. What about the overwhelming majority of the rest of the human body that is so vastly genius. As a creationist I say the burden of proof isn't for us to explain why God chose the designs that he used. I say the burden is on the evolutionist to show how an unthinking source was able to come up with all the genius systems within the human body. For once I would like to see one of you explain the entire process of how all these systems evolved step by step through each system. The Neurological System. The Vision System. The Hearing System. The Balance System. The Smell System. The Taste System. The Touch System. The Skin System. The Endocrine System. The Respiratory System. The Gastrointestinal System. The Circulatory System. The Excretory System. The Musculoskeletal System.
Lets start here Mr. Evolutionist. You explain how all these deeply intelligent systems evolved step by step. And I'm at the edge of my seat to find out how all this evolved each slow, step by step, over a long period of time when they all have to be present and working together for the body to survive for even one instant. How do you get by this all or nothing scientific fact?
ICDESIGN
Edited by ICDESIGN, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 421 by crashfrog, posted 07-04-2010 10:49 PM ICdesign has replied
 Message 422 by Coyote, posted 07-04-2010 11:32 PM ICdesign has replied

ICdesign
Member (Idle past 4824 days)
Posts: 360
From: Phoenix Arizona USA
Joined: 03-10-2007


Message 423 of 480 (568228)
07-04-2010 11:37 PM
Reply to: Message 421 by crashfrog
07-04-2010 10:49 PM


Re: burden of proof
I want to see the proof Crash. None of the questions I posed were answered. Show me the documented, OBSERVED proof that natural selection and random mutation created complex systems.
IC
P.S. It looks like genius design because it IS genius design.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 421 by crashfrog, posted 07-04-2010 10:49 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 428 by crashfrog, posted 07-05-2010 12:14 AM ICdesign has replied

ICdesign
Member (Idle past 4824 days)
Posts: 360
From: Phoenix Arizona USA
Joined: 03-10-2007


Message 424 of 480 (568229)
07-04-2010 11:41 PM
Reply to: Message 422 by Coyote
07-04-2010 11:32 PM


Re: burden of proof
Where did the mathematical computer models come from? Did they evolve on their own without intelligent help?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 422 by Coyote, posted 07-04-2010 11:32 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 425 by Coyote, posted 07-04-2010 11:57 PM ICdesign has replied

ICdesign
Member (Idle past 4824 days)
Posts: 360
From: Phoenix Arizona USA
Joined: 03-10-2007


Message 426 of 480 (568231)
07-05-2010 12:03 AM
Reply to: Message 421 by crashfrog
07-04-2010 10:49 PM


Re: burden of proof
I am tired of this Richard Dawkins dodging the bullit, smoke and mirrors horsecrap. "It only appears to be intelligent design".
Non of you can answere this straight question with a straight answer.
IF THE HUMAN BODY IS NOT GENIUS DESIGN THEN PLEASE GIVE AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT YOU CONSIDER A GENIUS DESIGN TO BE.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 421 by crashfrog, posted 07-04-2010 10:49 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 429 by crashfrog, posted 07-05-2010 12:21 AM ICdesign has not replied
 Message 431 by DrJones*, posted 07-05-2010 12:23 AM ICdesign has replied

ICdesign
Member (Idle past 4824 days)
Posts: 360
From: Phoenix Arizona USA
Joined: 03-10-2007


Message 427 of 480 (568232)
07-05-2010 12:09 AM
Reply to: Message 425 by Coyote
07-04-2010 11:57 PM


Re: burden of proof
I know its a scientific FACT that the human body cannot exist unless all of its vital systems are fully developed and working in harmony from the beginning
Thats what I know!!!
I know any computer along with ALL computer programs were designed by an intelligent mind!
Thats what I know!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 425 by Coyote, posted 07-04-2010 11:57 PM Coyote has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 430 by crashfrog, posted 07-05-2010 12:23 AM ICdesign has replied

ICdesign
Member (Idle past 4824 days)
Posts: 360
From: Phoenix Arizona USA
Joined: 03-10-2007


Message 432 of 480 (568237)
07-05-2010 12:31 AM
Reply to: Message 428 by crashfrog
07-05-2010 12:14 AM


Re: burden of proof
The arrogance of man is despicable. "If God were as smart as me he would have designed it like such and so".
I refer you back to post 420.
As usual you never answer any of my questions. WHAT is an example of an intelligent design Crash?
WHAT? WHAT? WHAT?
My body is amazing oh Lord and I thank you for designing it so I can comfortably live on this earth you created for us. Thank you for all the cool taste buds you gave me and all the wonderful flavors to enjoy with them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 428 by crashfrog, posted 07-05-2010 12:14 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 434 by crashfrog, posted 07-05-2010 12:36 AM ICdesign has replied

ICdesign
Member (Idle past 4824 days)
Posts: 360
From: Phoenix Arizona USA
Joined: 03-10-2007


Message 433 of 480 (568238)
07-05-2010 12:35 AM
Reply to: Message 431 by DrJones*
07-05-2010 12:23 AM


Re: burden of proof
No but I can drive my Vet at over a 100mph through the mountians.
Lets see a Great White do that. Lets see him go on line and communicate with others all around the world...don't get me started...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 431 by DrJones*, posted 07-05-2010 12:23 AM DrJones* has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 435 by DrJones*, posted 07-05-2010 12:41 AM ICdesign has not replied

ICdesign
Member (Idle past 4824 days)
Posts: 360
From: Phoenix Arizona USA
Joined: 03-10-2007


Message 436 of 480 (568241)
07-05-2010 12:42 AM
Reply to: Message 434 by crashfrog
07-05-2010 12:36 AM


Re: burden of proof
So what your telling me then is that if the designs had been designed as you claim they should have been, then you would believe in an intelligent designer? Is that what your saying?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 434 by crashfrog, posted 07-05-2010 12:36 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 437 by crashfrog, posted 07-05-2010 12:47 AM ICdesign has replied

ICdesign
Member (Idle past 4824 days)
Posts: 360
From: Phoenix Arizona USA
Joined: 03-10-2007


Message 438 of 480 (568244)
07-05-2010 12:54 AM
Reply to: Message 430 by crashfrog
07-05-2010 12:23 AM


Re: burden of proof
Disease is a whole other topic Crash.
I noticed not one person has offered any resource of step by step explanation of how all the systems developed into place that I asked for in post 420. Lets go back to that. I want to focus on that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 430 by crashfrog, posted 07-05-2010 12:23 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 439 by crashfrog, posted 07-05-2010 1:02 AM ICdesign has replied
 Message 440 by Coyote, posted 07-05-2010 1:03 AM ICdesign has not replied

ICdesign
Member (Idle past 4824 days)
Posts: 360
From: Phoenix Arizona USA
Joined: 03-10-2007


Message 441 of 480 (568250)
07-05-2010 1:04 AM
Reply to: Message 437 by crashfrog
07-05-2010 12:47 AM


Re: burden of proof
Crash
You don't understand the consequences of sin and rebellion against God. His creation has a temporary curse that will be lifted in the future.
You have plenty of proof right in front of you so that you are without excuse. I don't believe you when you say you would believe if it was all perfect. I think you would give all the credit to evolution having worked it all out after enough time.
I'm still praying for you Crash. See ya later

This message is a reply to:
 Message 437 by crashfrog, posted 07-05-2010 12:47 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 442 by crashfrog, posted 07-05-2010 1:10 AM ICdesign has replied

ICdesign
Member (Idle past 4824 days)
Posts: 360
From: Phoenix Arizona USA
Joined: 03-10-2007


Message 443 of 480 (568259)
07-05-2010 2:24 AM
Reply to: Message 442 by crashfrog
07-05-2010 1:10 AM


Re: burden of proof
As post-hoc explanations go, that's a pretty clumsy one. It doesn't even hold together on theological grounds, as theologians have long known
Oh really? Its obvious you have never read the book of Genesis chapter 3 where God placed the curse or the book of Revelation chapter 21 when things are made new again. Your so-called theologians are false teachers pal. But then all of your beliefs are obviously based on false information.
That's fair. I don't believe you'd accept evolution if we had all 2 billions years of it on video tape, so I guess we're even.
You don't have two minutes of video tape proof to show observed Macro-evolution.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 442 by crashfrog, posted 07-05-2010 1:10 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 444 by crashfrog, posted 07-05-2010 2:56 AM ICdesign has replied

ICdesign
Member (Idle past 4824 days)
Posts: 360
From: Phoenix Arizona USA
Joined: 03-10-2007


Message 445 of 480 (568263)
07-05-2010 3:03 AM
Reply to: Message 439 by crashfrog
07-05-2010 1:02 AM


Re: burden of proof
Yes that IS a tall order isn't it? Because everything I have seen written takes these huge leaps without explaining the HOW of everything in between
Studying even a small part of the function of even one of these systems could be the subject of a person's Ph.D. thesis. Do you understand why, after one hour, no one might yet have posted the explanations you're looking for?
I'm looking for broad strokes and general terms of how a system got from point A to a functioning system. Moreover, I would like to know how the organizm survived with a non-functioning system along the way.
I know we can't go over all these systems here but if you would have paid attention I asked for a resource. I don't need a Ph.D to understand basic functions. Lets look at the Skeletal system as a beginning point. Why would natural selection and random mutations
develope the skull, all the bones and joints and place them in perfect position with the obvious purpose in which they are there to perform. Why would this purpose be fulfilled without the knowledge that it was needed? How did it piece together?
The question why is begged with every single system. Never mind how for now. I want to know why?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 439 by crashfrog, posted 07-05-2010 1:02 AM crashfrog has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 447 by Huntard, posted 07-05-2010 3:10 AM ICdesign has replied

ICdesign
Member (Idle past 4824 days)
Posts: 360
From: Phoenix Arizona USA
Joined: 03-10-2007


Message 446 of 480 (568264)
07-05-2010 3:10 AM
Reply to: Message 444 by crashfrog
07-05-2010 2:56 AM


Re: burden of proof
We actually have hundreds of examples of macroevolution, dozens of examples of speciation we've observed.
you sir, are a bald faced liar! Name one CLEARCUT example of Macro-evolution. One species into a completely different species thats been observed and agreed by scientist's that it is indeed a different species. Hundreds my ass.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 444 by crashfrog, posted 07-05-2010 2:56 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 449 by crashfrog, posted 07-05-2010 3:26 AM ICdesign has replied

ICdesign
Member (Idle past 4824 days)
Posts: 360
From: Phoenix Arizona USA
Joined: 03-10-2007


Message 448 of 480 (568266)
07-05-2010 3:20 AM
Reply to: Message 447 by Huntard
07-05-2010 3:10 AM


Re: burden of proof
Who says it wasn't functioning along the way?
OK then. How would the Circulatory system function if all the pathways were not complete, for one small example?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 447 by Huntard, posted 07-05-2010 3:10 AM Huntard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 450 by crashfrog, posted 07-05-2010 3:26 AM ICdesign has not replied
 Message 451 by Huntard, posted 07-05-2010 3:28 AM ICdesign has not replied
 Message 459 by Percy, posted 07-05-2010 7:42 AM ICdesign has replied

ICdesign
Member (Idle past 4824 days)
Posts: 360
From: Phoenix Arizona USA
Joined: 03-10-2007


Message 465 of 480 (568368)
07-05-2010 11:22 AM
Reply to: Message 449 by crashfrog
07-05-2010 3:26 AM


Re: burden of proof
Meffert and Bryant (1991) used houseflies to test whether bottlenecks in populations can cause permanent alterations in courtship behavior that lead to premating isolation. They collected over 100 flies of each sex from a landfill near Alvin, Texas. These were used to initiate an ancestral population. From this ancestral population they established six lines. Two of these lines were started with one pair of flies, two lines were started with four pairs of flies and two lines were started with sixteen pairs of flies. These populations were flushed to about 2,000 flies each. They then went through five bottlenecks followed by flushes. This took 35 generations. Mate choice tests were performed. One case of positive assortative mating was found. One case of negative assortative mating was also found.
This is one of your proofs Crash? I'm not sure if I should laugh or puke. A fly is a fly. It always has been and thats all it ever will be.
No, actually, I'm just better informed than you.
you haven't given me anything to respond to but a bunch of evo-babble in this entire post. If you were even a fraction as smart as you think you are you would understand that if Macro-evolution had been taking place all this time we would be surrounded by millions and millions of transitional forms. Is that what we see in the REAL world? No it isn't. We see every species staying within its own kind just like the bible has clearly stated all along. I mean go back and read the foolish examples you just gave me. You've got to be kidding. Your waisting my time Crash & burn.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 449 by crashfrog, posted 07-05-2010 3:26 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 466 by Theodoric, posted 07-05-2010 11:30 AM ICdesign has replied
 Message 472 by Huntard, posted 07-05-2010 12:10 PM ICdesign has not replied
 Message 479 by crashfrog, posted 07-05-2010 4:41 PM ICdesign has not replied

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