'Some still living' disproves literal truth of the bible

Hi hooah,Before I wade into this debate I need a little information. Can I take a statement from vol a of the encyclopedia Britannia and prove something said in vol c of the same encyclopedia?God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Peepul, I take it you have not had formal training in the study of the Bible or the languages of the Bible.If you had you would know there is no problem with the text.Lets examine the text, I use the KJV. Who is Jesus speaking to? Verse 24 tells us His disciples.
What is Jesus speaking about? He is speaking about the bema seat judgment when those who have been born again are judged according to their works.
When will this take place? In the future yet.This verse says absolutely nothing about His kingdom. Who is Jesus speaking to? Still His disciples.
What is Jesus speaking about? Them seeing Him coming in His kingdom.
When did this take place? Within a couple of weeks of the announcment.
How did it take place? When Jesus made His triumphant entry into Jerusalem riding on the colt of an ass. Jesus was received and announced as the son of David. He came into Jerusalem in royal power, and was announced as heir to the throne of David. Matthew chapter 21.The Greek word that is translated kingdom, transliterated basileia and means royal power, kingship, dominion, rule.It has to do with the right or authority to rule over a kingdom and has nothing to do with the actual kingdom.The kingdom authority was already in existence on earth. Jesus had given the troops orders to announce the Kings arrival to the Jews. The kingdom authority wasn't coming in the future it was present as the King was present.They crucified the King of the Jews at Calvary.The actual kingdom will be on earth after the tribulation period when Christ will set upon the throne of David and rule the world from Jerusalem for 1,000 years.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Izanagi, So you are saying if there are two different authors offering evidence it is better argumentation and not circular reasoning?In other words if Hawking wrote something and Guth wrote something that was pretty much in agreement with what Hawking wrote that would be acceptable information. Then if someone else writes talking about these same things then in a couple of thousand years somebody could read their statements that was confirmed by an uninterested 3rd party and that would add weight to what they had said.Is that what you are saying?God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi greyseal, I know it is different from the Bible.An encyclopedia is a collection of books that contain information that is gathered by a group of people and arranged in alphabetical order printed and sold.The information is just as accurate as the people gathering it an assembling it make it to be. It is usually done over a relative short period of time and then is updated each year with an additional book.The Bible is a collection of 66 books that that was written by 40 different writers over a period of nearly 1500 years. When rightly divided there is no contradictions in it. Most of the writers who wrote never saw what the other writers had wrote.Josephus a Jewish historian who witnessed the destruction of the temple in 70 AD wrote of many of the things that are contained in the books of the Bible as well as Origen who was a religious writer and wrote at a later date. After 200 AD so he would have had what other had to say available to him.So why would one be circular reasoning and the other not?God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi greyseal, In Message 22 I gave an example of Stephen Hawking and Alan Guth, would this be acceptable?

quote:

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In other words if Hawking wrote something and Guth wrote something that was pretty much in agreement with what Hawking wrote that would be acceptable information. Then if someone else writes talking about these same things then in a couple of thousand years somebody could read their statements that was confirmed by an uninterested 3rd party and that would add weight to what they had said.

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God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Pepul, I have no idea why Matthew used those exact words. He is writing what he remembered that Jesus said.Matthew was allowed to use his own words to describe what he understood to be said and happening. I don't know if he was taking notes on a constant basis or if he wrote them down each night. He could have even been writing from memory. I would assume he would have been writing from memory as they truly expected Jesus to set up His earthly kingdom at that time. If that had been the case there would have been no need of anything ever being written down.Matthew was giving testimony that there would be some there that would see Jesus coming with kingdom authority. There may have been those there who died before that took place which Matthew would have known about at the time of his writing.Regardless of why the words were recorded as they were the facts do not change.There were many standing there that saw Jesus come into Jerusalem as prophesied in kingdom authority accepted as king to sit on David's throne.Not everyone accepted Him and therefore they plotted to kill Him and was allowed to succeed. Because it was necessary for Jesus to die for the sins of the world.That is the only way I or anyone else could be restored to a right relationship with God.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi greyseal, You didn't make it more complicated.I simply wanted to know if two men who knew each other and had collaborated on different things could be used as support for the other's position.You agreed that it can.So what is your problem with Apostles who have written about the same subject giving their personal account of events being circular reasoning, when I use one to verify the other? When they never saw the others work. As the only one writing letters that was in circulation at the time was Paul.What is wrong with me using something written 3,000 years ago to verify something written 1950 years ago?Would it have given more weight to the different books had they not been gathered into one volume of 66 books?BTW I have a set of single books.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Peg, Peg do you have any idea what the Greek word basileia means?That is the word translated kingdom in 2Peter 1:11 Kingdom is translated from the Greek word basileia which means:1) royal power, kingship, dominion, rulea) not to be confused with an actual kingdom but rather the right or authority to rule over a kingdomSo Peter is talking about the authority of Jesus.He is not talking about a physical kingdom that has not transpired yet.Jesus will sit physically on a throne in Jerusalem one day and rule the entire world for a period of time lasting at least 1000 years in a physical kingdom.He presently rules over the universe as He always has.At the present Satan is the prince and power of the air on earth.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi EMA, The same set of keys Abraham used. Abraham believed God.Faith, total absolute trust in Jesus Christ as Savior.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Peg, Along with: Peg according to the deifinition of ekklsiaAny group of people called out in a meeting for a specific purpose is a church. Whether it is a PTA meeting, a Lyons club, boy scouts, etc. They all fit the requirements of a church.So Jesus Church must be a group of people He called out of the world for a specific purpose.In Matthew 4:18 it tells of Jesus walking by the sea of Galilee saw Peter and Andrew casting a net.In verse 19 He saith unto them, "follow me and I will make you fishers of men.In verse 20 they straightway followed Him.We have two men called out from their jobs as fishermen to the job of fishing for men for Jesus. That constituted Jesus Church.During Jesus personal ministry of some 3 1/2 years He acquired 120 disciples in His Church.This group of people was taught what they were supposed to do by Jesus Himself.They were given a set of marching orders prior to Jesus ascension. Jesus speaking to His disciples said, "All power is given unto me"He then tells His discipls:'Go ye' which is translated from the Greek word poreu which means:
1) to lead over, carry over, transfer
a) to pursue the journey on which one has entered, to continue on one's journey'teach' translated from the Greek word mathteu which means:
1) to be a disciple of one
a) to follow his precepts and instructions'all' translated from the Greek word pas which means:
1) individually
a) each, every, any,'nations' translated from the Greek word ethnos which means:
1) a multitude associated or living together'baptizing' translated from the Greek word baptiz which means:
1) to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk)Therefore Jesus tells His Church.As you go, we don't have a choice we journey here on earth till we die.Make disciples. Disciples are people who have believed Jesus and been born of the Holy Spirit.Baptizing them. The Church was to immerse, by sumerging those born again disciples in water.After which they were to teach those born again, baptized believers, all things He had taught the Church.That is the order Jesus set up and any other order is out of order.Now to answer the question, What is a scriptural New Testament Church of Jesus Christ.Any local group of scripturally baptized born again children of God who are called out of the world and assembled together to accomplish making disciples and then baptizing them and then teaching them the all things Jesus taught.Any group that is not doing things the way Jesus set them up is not a Church of the Lord Jesus Christ.Therefore there is only one scriptural New Testament Church.The one that believes Jesus and is doing things the way He set it up.Edited by ICANT, : correct spelling

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Peg, Well that is the problem.We have over 1288 different so called christian churches in the US.Each one of them think they are the true church.Nobody liked the old time religion that the song was written about, so they modernized it. Brought it up to speed so to speak because it was outdated and not good enough for the times we live in.The first problem was the Bible so they rewrote it to suit their own needs and beliefs.Many are still trying to rewrite it today, even here at EvC.In Message 19 I broke down and discussed what Matthew 16:27, 28 says using the Greek and the proper rules for Bible Analysis.Peepful responded to the message but no one else did.No one refuted the post.Matthew 16:27 has not taken place yet as Jesus has not set up a physical kingdom on earth yet. The Greek word basileia translated kingdom here refers to royal power, authority, dominion.basileia comes from the root word basileus which means:1) leader of the people, prince, commander, lord of the land, kingWhen Jesus entered Jerusalem riding on the colt of an ass in His triumphant entrance coming in His kingdom authority there was some there that received Him as King.Most rejected Him and crucified Him 5 days later.So yes there was many that heard Jesus words recorded in Matthew 16:28 that saw Him come in His Kingdom authority, as there was a parade in which the King entered JerusalemOne day Jesus will sit on a physical throne in Jerusalem and rule the entire world from there. Then He will have a physical kingdom and a physical rule.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Statman,Welcome to EvC. The multitude of people that were there: Sounds like a parade to me. The Israelites had been looking for a king of the lineage of David to come and set them free from their bondage for hundreds of years.The multitude accepted Jesus as that king.Mark recorded the events with these comments. They were looking for a king to come and take the throne of David and rule the world forever as that is what had been promised.Jesus was rejected by the majority as king because He did not come riding on a white charger with a large army and take over all government functions.They refused to accept the one come to set them free from the bondage of sin because all they wanted was someone to set them free from Roman rule. I guess you could say He was a traveling announcer, that according to the folks that were there and wrote about His entrance said it caused quite a stir. You will get no argument from me on this point as that is what I was trying to prove by the definitions of the Greek word translated kingdom.He had kingdom authority then as He has had since He created the universe and everything in it.There was no physical kingdom set up during Jesus trip to earth in the flesh body like a man. He came the first time as a deliverer from the bondage of sin the first man sold us into.When He comes the second time He will be riding on that white charger, and all the governments of the world will bow down to His authority.He will then set up a government and rule the world from Jerusalem.The True Church is not the kingdom but she does have kingdom authority.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Statman, As far as you being more qualified than I am, you may be. But I seriously doubt it.You sound like some of the first year students I have had in the past.And from your post in reply to my post Message 66 to Peg I don't put much stock in that piece of sheepskin if you really have one.In Message 71 You: I wasn't admiting anything, I was making a statement of fact.The prophecy of Jesus coming in kingdom power did happen upon His triumphant entry into Jerusalem.This prophecy: Is still in the future.Do you believe in the future return of Jesus to the earth? Do you believe this prophecy will come to pass?God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Peg, Because the Bible teaches that it will be.Since a discussion of that would be off topic in this thread, why don't you start a thread on the end times and we can discuss the events leading up to: And those events following.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Statman. Which means you finished the required courses to the satisfaction of the institution conferring them. But those hardly qualify you as knowledgeable about the Word of God. That alone disqualifies you and is the reason you think it is foolishness.The first requirement to understand the Bible is you must be born again. So if you read the Bible and it does not make sense to you that is completely understandable. You do not have the Holy Spirit to lead you and guide you in all truth.My first year in Bible College in 1964 I had all the answers. After 6 years of Koine Greek, Old Aramaic, and Chaldee Hebrew, with over 40 years of pastoral and teaching experience I still have not acquired the knowledge I thought I had then.I did meet the requirements of the College I attended to get their Bible Language diploma and even completed my Thesis for my DD. But all those prove is I met their requirements.At age 70 I limit myself to a full pastorate and EvC.Now if you would like to go back to Message 19 and point out errors in my analysis of Matthew 16:27, 28 have at it.That would add to the discussion we are supposed to be talking about.
Which was brought about by not understanding what the Bible says, rather than what someone wanted it to say.Jesus was talking about two separate events that would take place a couple of thousand years apart.Jesus did come with kingdom authority. He is the King but when He was here the first time He had no domain. The devil is still the prince and power of the air on earth.When Jesus returns He will have dominion over the entire earth as the devil will be bound and exiled to the lake of fire for 1000 years.God Bless, Edited by AdminPD, : Off Topic

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."