'Some still living' disproves literal truth of the bible

Its quite clear throughout the NT, that the second coming was to occur during the "lifetime" of the followers of Jesus. Never does the Bible say Jesus will return far in the future. Its always "near", "nearby", "around the corner", "soon" etc.. Matthew 24 clearly states that his disciples will witness all the signs of his return. No sense of telling them to watch anyway, if he isnt returning for 2000 years.A few of my favorite verses dealing with the return of Jesus are:"For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." Matt 16:27-28.Its very telling this scripture. Jesus is refering to his return. Those standing with him shall witness this event. Christians of course, have to pretend it refers to something else, not the second coming. But the key point is that Jesus clarifies the time frame.Those standing with him with him will be around when god rewards/punishes mankind. This clearly lays out the end times.Luke 21:25-28 "There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. Men will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken. At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift your heads, becasue your redemption is drawing near."Jesus again is speaking to those in front of him, stating they will witness these events.1 Thessalonians 4:15-17
15According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.Paul makes it clear, he or others of his time, will be alive when Jesus returns.

"This generation" when used in the Bible, EVERY time it refers to that time frame of the person speaking. Same applies in Matthew 24.Also, the story (Matthew 24) does not end with the chapter. It continues in the next chapter where it clearly shows its refering to the end times.Christians take a snippet of verse and tend to ignore the surrounding context.31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

"This generation" when used in the Bible, EVERY time it refers to that time frame of the person speaking. Same applies in Matthew 24. Jay, I left the Is Jesus God thread bc you created so many strawman arguments, I couldnt follow anymore. You're doing it again. Every time "this generation" is used, it refers to the time line being referenced. Every single time. Heck, Matthew 12 doesnt even use "this generation" nor does Proverbs 30:11.----------------------------------------------------------------------------Matthew 24 clearly states Jesus will return during the lifetime of those present. Chapter 25 continues explaining this. Throughout the NT, over and over, its always the same. The return of Jesus is "right around the corner","near", "nearby", "soon" etc.. Only in apologetics does any of this mean thousands of years later.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------1 Thessalonians 4:15-17
15According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
Paul makes it clear, he or others of his time, will be alive when Jesus returns. Paul states "we", not "you". He is addressing those in his time frame. Nope. Nothing in scripture suggests this at all. If Paul states "you", then you might have a point. "We" includes Paul.In fact, using CONTEXT, we can see Paul quite clearly states Jesus will return during the "lifetime" of his writings."Behold! I tell you a mystery; WE SHALL NOT ALL SLEEP BUT WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED... in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet... the dead will be raised..." (1Corinthians 15:51,52)Again, Paul does not state "you", but "we".Romans 16, whom is Paul speaking to? That time frame or you today? Read it carefully.Philippians 1
1:1 Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:Whom is Paul addressing? Those during his time frame or you today? Again, read carefully.

The verses you provided only ONE of them deals with "this generation". The others do not. Second, "this generation" EVERY time refers to that time period being refered to. Third, the story starts in Matthew 23 and continues on in Matthew 25. "This generation" clearly shows Jesus refering to those he is speaking to. Matthew 25 clarifies what "this generation" refers to. Its a continuation of chapter 24, which is a continuation of 23. Also, Matthew 24 states that those being talked to by Jesus will be witness to the end times.I'm glad you brought up that Jesus will return with his angels, bc Matthew 24 refers back to Matthew 16:27For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done. 28I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."Obviously, it refers to the end times. When? During his disciples lifetime. How do we know? Some standing there will witness Jesus returning with angels and rewarding mankind for their deeds. How is it a leap of faith? The gospels have Jesus speaking to his disciples. Telling them "when". Jesus is not directing his words to you, but to those standing before him.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Throughout the NT, over and over, its always the same. The return of Jesus is "right around the corner","near", "nearby", "soon" etc.. Only in apologetics does any of this mean thousands of years later. Absolutely correct...and yet wrong. Yes, the EXACT time is not known, but the time frame is. Jesus and Paul tells those they are speaking to-to look, be aware that the end times are upon them.
No sense in telling them such things if the end times were thousands of years in the future. Matthew 24, Jesus tells his disciples that "they will SEE" Jesus return. There is a reason they thought Jesus was returning during their lifetime...he told them that! Jesus did not say live as I have taught you and that the end times are far away. No, he told them to live as he taught them and that the end times are right around the corner, that they will see all the signs, they will witness his return.I could give you plenty more scripture to show the end times were near.... Never does any author in the NT state they are far off. Why is that? Its always around the corner, nearby.You did ignore two key points I brought up.Who is Paul addressingin Romans 16 and Phillipians 1?

The verses you provided only ONE of them deals with "this generation". The others do not. Second, "this generation" EVERY time refers to that time period being refered to. Third, the story starts in Matthew 23 and continues on in Matthew 25. "This generation" clearly shows Jesus refering to those he is speaking to. Of course I can. Its called CONTEXT. The key word that apologists love to ignore. First, in Matthew 23 it states who Jesus is talking to! After his long speech, in which it states Jesus is addressing the teachers of the law and the Pharisses, he then proceeds to say:35And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.Notice the word "you". Hes still speaking to those standing in front of him. Then he proceeds to states "this generation".Its only through apologetics can one butcher the context of the Bible...of course only when there is a problem.In Matthew 24, Jesus is asked when the end times are to arrive. What does Jesus say to those asking him the question? Jesus states quite a few times "you", addressing his disciples.30"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.So after all the signs arrive, Jesus will return. He will be COMING on clouds....This is quite clear, Jesus will be COMING on the clouds.He ends it by stating: 33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[d]is near, right at the door. 34I tell you the truth, this generation[e] will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.The "you" is his disciples, again he adds "this generation".But lets go back a second....COMING on clouds, angels, gathering the elect...which is the arrival of Jesus and the end times.Mattew 16:
27For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done. 28I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."Obviously, Jesus is speaking to those in front of him.Luke 21:25-28 "There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. Men will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken. At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift your heads, becasue your redemption is drawing near."Again, Jesus is addressing those in front of him. Its the same story...the end times.....notice, "...stand and lift YOUR heads..".Its called context. The end times were to occur during their lifetime.Matthew 10:15I tell you the truth, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town. 16I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves.Jesus is speaking to his disciples about the end times. The final judgement.17"Be on your guard against men; they will hand you over to the local councils and flog you in their synagogues. 18On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as witnesses to them and to the Gentiles. 19But when they arrest you, do not worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time you will be given what to say, 20for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.21"Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. 22All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 23When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. I tell you the truth, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.Jesus clearly states his disciples will not be able to go through all the towns before Jesus arrives.Finally, the absurd statement that I cannot prove that your post is intended for no one else but me....You are correct. I cannot. But again, you've created another strawman.Even though you are addressing me. you may be also posting for others to read. The problem is that Jesus CANNOT be speaking to you and his disciples. Both of you cannot be alive and witness the end times. On top of that, I know Jesus is not addressing you bc he clearly states over and over whom he is addressing-his disciples.

Matthew 25 clarifies what "this generation" refers to. Its a continuation of chapter 24, which is a continuation of 23. Also, Matthew 24 states that those being talked to by Jesus will be witness to the end times. You are absolutely correct. Jesus is not just speaking to his disciples. He is speaking to everyone....at that time frame. How do we know? Bc Jesus clearly states his disciples would witness the end times! Matthew 16 and 24. Jesus cannot be speaking to you, since you are not born for another 2000 years.Jesus clearly lays out the time frame when he is returning: To some of those standing in front of him.Let me ask you, if I said I would respond to one of your posts soon....do you think I mean in a day or two...or years later?If I said I live nearby...do you think I mean perhaps a town or two over....maybe even a county...or halfway around the world?If I said the store is around the corner, do you think I mean a few streets over, a couple of blocks....or a few states? Again, correct. Jesus is not just speaking to his disciples...but to all, at that time frame. You're ignoring context. No other word creates such headaches for scripture as context. I've given other verses in Luke which clearly show Jesus was refering to his time frame. Do you need more?Luke 21 clearly lays out the signs of the end times. Jesus repeatedly states "you", refering to his disciples would be witness to these events.--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm glad you brought up that Jesus will return with his angels, bc Matthew 24 refers back to Matthew 16:
27For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done. 28I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."Obviously, it refers to the end times. When? During his disciples lifetime. How do we know? Some standing there will witness Jesus returning with angels and rewarding mankind for their deeds. Not sure exactly what you are reading.....27For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done. 28I tell you the truth, some WHO ARE STANDING HERE WHO WILL NOT TASTE DEATH before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom." Nope. When Jesus returns he is rewarding/punishing everyone. Matthew clearly states this. In fact, Revelation also lays this out:Revelation 22:12
"Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done."Again and again, scripture states its "soon"! What is going to occur when Jesus returns, he will reward them. Which falls back upon Matthew 16, which stats when Jesus returns he shall reward each person for their actions. When? To some that will be alive that he is speaking to.Since you keep ignoring my question about Romans 16 and Phillipians 1, I'll address it for you.Romans 1-16 lays out exactly whom Jesus is speaking to. Paul then proceeds to say: 20The God of peace will soon crush Satan under YOUR feet.Notice again, it states "soon". The "you" refers back to those he is speaking to.Phillipians 1, Paul states who he is addressing in verse 1 and 2. He then states:10so that you may be able to discern what is best and may be pure and blameless until the day of Christ,Notice the "you".

Jay, you're preaching. My actions of accepting Jesus or not has nothing to do with our debate. We are basing our friendly argument on what the Bible states. You've attacked my beliefs a few times, which have nothing to do with what Jesus said or did.Focus on scripture, not what you want me to believe.You have offered zero evidence to support your conclusions. You've ignored quite a few quesions.Lets try it this way. Can you provide any evidence that Jesus is to return 2000 years later?So far, the only evidence you have supplied is that Jesus was talking beyond those directly standing in front of him. Neither of us is disputing this. In fact, you keep focusing on this issue when we are agreeing with you. But you're either ignoring what we are stating on purpose or missing what we are trying to convey.Yes, Paul spoke beyond those he was addressing...but we are talking about a time frame.We have given you the time frame from numerous verses, which back up exactly as we are stating.Jesus may be speaking to his disciples and beyond just those standing in front of him....But when he states to those in front of him that they will "see", they will "run"...it may refer to others besides those within hearing distance...but it CANNOT mean those thousands of years later, when refering to the calamity of the end times. Edited by hERICtic, : No reason given.

Jay, you're preaching. No, Jay-I am not. These are your words: This has nothing to do with our debate on end times. You're preaching.---------------------------------------------------------------------------------You have offered zero evidence to support your conclusions. You've ignored quite a few quesions. Jesus specifically conveyed what would occur when he comes into his kingdom...he will reward every man. This refers then, to his return.------------------------------------------------------------------------------Lets try it this way. Can you provide any evidence that Jesus is to return 2000 years later? The authors did not specifiy the exact number of years, true. But they did say "soon', "nearby", "around the corner", "quickly" etcNone of these words imply long periods of time. Jesus also told his followers they would witness the signs. Makes little sense to tell his disciples they would witness the signs....if the end times were thousands of years later. But if makes perfect sense if it was during their lifetime.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Jesus may be speaking to his disciples and beyond just those standing in front of him....
But when he states to those in front of him that they will "see", they will "run"...it may refer to others besides those within hearing distance...but it CANNOT mean those thousands of years later, when refering to the calamity of the end times. Wow. This is scary. You are utterly destroying the context to make the obvioius problem go away. Jesus is asked point blank by his disciples "when"...and over and over Jesus states "you". He is speaking to his disciples. By stating "you" he can only be including his disciples/those in that time frame OR his disciples/those at that time frame and everyone at any time.
But once Jesus states "you' and gives the signs and the actions resulting from the signs it can ONLY refer to his disciples and those in that time frame.The question asked of him is WHEN are the end times. Those in the time frame of Jesus and those today cannot both be witness to the signs Jesus is refering to. How can the end times occur immediately as Jesus stated, if its 2000 years later????20"When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. 22For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written.Jesus is speaking to his disciples. This is a sign the end times are near. This cannot refer to 2000 years later. This event occured in 70ad.

Jay, I have asked you three times and finally addressed my own question since you refused to answer it...and you still ignored it.Romans 16 and Phillipians 1 clearly lays out a time frame as to when Jesus will return. Paul gives names to whom he is writing to.On top of that, you've ignored this verse as a whole quite a few times:"For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Fatherwith his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." Matt 16:27-28.You seem to ignore the part where Jesus states he is returning to reward mankind. Thats the key, which refers to those standing there. Nothing could be clearer.There are some standing there shall witness the return of Jesus with his angels, as Jesus rewards/punishes mankind.Matthew 10 clearly refers to the end times.15I tell you the truth, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town. 16I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves.The story is that Jesus wants his disciples to go out into the land and preach.21"Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. 22All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 23When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. I tell you the truth, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.His disciples will not be able to go to all the towns of Israel before the end times occur! This has nothing with Jesus returning from the grave, Jesus is refering to the end times. He even goes into detail of what is going to occur during these times. CONTEXT.Even more:"What I mean, brothers, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they had none; those who mourn, as if they did not; those who are happy, as if they were not; those who buy something, as if it were not theirs to keep; those who use the things of the world, as if not engrossed in them. For this world in its present form is passing away." 1 Cor 15:50-53Again, a time frame is given......"short." Its not far. Its always "short. " His speech clarifies what "short" means! Its to occur during his lifetime! It makes no sense to tell his followers then and you today to live if you do not have a wife! Why would Paul tell his audience to live if they do not have wives, do not bother mourning, to not get comfortable with their buys if the end times were 2000 years later? He cannot be addressing those in that time frame and those today bc he states the "present" world......which cannot mean 2000 years later!Jay, give us ONE verse which states the end times are far. Just one. EVERY single one states its "soon"! EVERY ONE.

Jay, you're preaching. Jay, I asked you not to preach....bc you go off on so many tangents it gets ridiculous. You're giving long winded speeches, but you're not providing any evidence for your claims. I have given a plethora of verses which have shown the end times were in that time frame. I have given words which show it was to occur rapidly. I asked question upon question. Not only do you ignore the questions, you provide no evidence to support your claims, none. You bounce around all over the Bible, without actually dealing with the issues presented.You obviously put in a lot of hard work and your posts are well written, but I have delete 3/4 of them usually bc it has nothing to do with our debate.Case in point: I asked you to show me in scripture where it states the end times were far off.Your response: So you finally admit that the Bible says its impending.....then dismiss it by stating there are verses which show otherwise-yet you do not provide one verse which states this. Untrue. If I said in a few years...and 100 years go by, its not a few years. A number does not have to be given to show a prediction or statement is incorrect. See...this is exactly my point. This has nothing to do with our topic.You're basically stating since X didnt happen, then obviously Jesus was not returning in the time frame of his disciples. Its an absurd way of thinking.You have to provide evidence that Jesus stated it was to occur far in the future, which is when X will happen. Again its the same lack of logic which doesn't deal with the actual issue. We are not discussing if he is delaying his return, we are not discussing how much time he needs, we are not discussing how many believers he wants or needs....We are discussing what scripture states regarding the end times. What evidence do I have or do you have to show a time frame.You have no provided a single verse which states the end times are in the far future. None. It does not matter what you think you need to see or want to see, we are discussing what is actually stated. Again, this does not provide any time frame at all.I deleted most of your post bc again, you're all over the place. You then went on to other verses which show Jesus speaking to those in his time frame and outside of it. This has NOTHING to do with our debate. I never said Jesus could not do that. I said the verses we are debating, Jesus and Paul are not doing so. You have to focus on the scripture given. You even brought in scripture by Peter. I do not thin I even mentioned Peter once. You then brought in the failure of the church, the wandering in the desert, the moon turning blood red (um..when did this occur) as predicted (really?),Moses,etc...Jay, you're all over the place! Give one verse and debate that.Here, lets start again.Luke 21.7"Teacher," they asked, "when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are about to take place?"8He replied: "Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am he,' and, 'The time is near.' Do not follow them. 9When you hear of wars and revolutions, do not be frightened. These things must happen first, but the end will not come right away."My question to you: Is Jesus speaking to his disciples? Yes or no?My next question: When Jesus returns, will he reward/punish mankind? Yes or no?

Jay, I have asked you three times and finally addressed my own question since you refused to answer it...and you still ignored it.
Romans 16 and Phillipians 1 clearly lays out a time frame as to when Jesus will return. Paul gives names to whom he is writing to. The chapters are very short. (No wait, by short, I mean as many words as War and Peace Sorry, had to throw some apolgetics in there). Just read both and answer the question.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On top of that, you've ignored this verse as a whole quite a few times:
"For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." Matt 16:27-28. I have already covered this at least four times.You seem to ignore the part where Jesus states he is returning to reward mankind. That's the key, which refers to those standing there. Nothing could be clearer. A specific number does not have to be mentioned. You know this.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I agree. Using the entire NT, it clearly states the end times were to occur during the time frame of Jesus. NOTHING indicates otherwise.I have debated many apologists. Eschatology seems to mean making up anything to solve a Biblical problem while completely ignoring context usually. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------Matthew 10 clearly refers to the end times.15I tell you the truth, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town. 16I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves. I cannot tell if you're being naive or pretending not to understand. I already told you, I explained the scenario. Jesus is referring to the end times. He wants his disciples to go out and preach his message.21"Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. 22All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 23When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. I tell you the truth, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes. I cannot believe you just stated that. The CONTEXT is that Jesus tells his disciples to go out in the land, preach his message....but they will not be able to go through all the cites before he returns.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Which you havent given. Not one verse which shows its to occur after 2000 years. Not one. I have given quite a few. You're not going to get a number. A specific day does not have to be given. I have already showed you through numerous scriptures that its always "soon", "nearby","around the corner", that there will be some of his disciples alive when he returns, that his disciples will witness the signs and have to run for the hills, that those in the time frame of Jesus should live as though they are not married, etc.A number does not have to be given to show that it would occur within 40 or so years. This is your entire argument. You have zero scripture to show it would occur 2000 years later, so you've fallen back on asking me for a specific number.Whatever the exact number, some of his disciples would witness his return.I asked, referring to Luke 21, which you did not address:8He replied: "Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am he,' and, 'The time is near.' Do not follow them. 9When you hear of wars and revolutions, do not be frightened. These things must happen first, but the end will not come right away."10Then he said to them: "Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. 11There will be great earthquakes, famines and pestilences in various places, and fearful events and great signs from heaven.12"But before all this, they will lay hands on you and persecute you.Who is Jesus addressing?

Matthew 16:27For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done. 28I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."The transfiguration occured right after this.Please show me:1) The angels that were present.
2) Those standing before Jesus in Matthew 16 who died before they could witness the transfiguration.
3) Where it states Jesus rewarded mankind for their actions at the transfiguration.Thanks.

Jay, there is a huge difference between you and us in our debate. We, take scripture and use the entire chapter, context to support our argument. You take a verse and completely ignore the surrouding context. Here are a few examples in your last post. You left out all the crucial parts.9"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.The disciples will be persecuted, with many false prophets deceiving people. This is to occur at the same time.20Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until nowand never to be equaled again.Jesus is still talking to his disciples, not you, two thousand years in the future. Notice what it states, they the disciples have to take flight! When? During the great distress, which will be unequaled to any other time. This refers to the end times. It will NEVER be equaled again. So it cannot refer to 2000 years in the future. This event is to occur when the disciples take flight!29"Immediately after the distress of those days
" 'the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'[c]30"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.At what time? During the great distress. When is this to occur? Go back a lil: 15"So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,'[b] spoken of through the prophet Daniellet the reader understand 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.The desolution already occured. Jesus was not refering to 2000 years later. At the end times, the stars will fall out of the sky. Of course, this is an erroneous belief...but thats another story. The key point is that the stars falling will IMMEDIATELY occur after the the desolation! Did they? Nope. Its 2000 years later.Here is a huge key part:33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[d]is near, right at the door. 34I tell you the truth, this generation[e] will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.Jesus states clearly that his disciples will witness all these events! When YOU see all these things....its right at your door! This again does not mean 2000 years later! Think about it. His disciples ask when the end times are to occur. Jesus tells them to be aware of the signs. Why tell his disciples to see the signs...if the signs were not to occur for over 2000 years??? Jesus adds after the signs, his return is right at the door! Again, another reference to it being immediate.Jesus clarifies everything by stating this was to occur during THIS GENERATION. Nowhere in the entire Bible does "this generation" refer to anything but the time frame being referenced.33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[d]is near, right at the door. 34I tell you the truth, this generation[e] will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.Jesus refers to his disciples, YOU. For they will see all this. Jesus then clarifies by stating this was to occur during THIS GENERATION.This is so damning that apologists try to distort what "this generation" means. But in CONTEXT, its crystal clear.42"Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.Who is Jesus talking to? His disciples still. He tells them to keep watch. Again, why bother if his return is not for another 2000 years? He adds he might not know the exact day, but you should be ready. He will arrive when his disciples do not expect him! So Jesus again admits he is returning during their lifetime!Here is something very crucial. You brought it up. Matthew did not have chapters. Chapter 25 is a continuous narrative of the previous chapter.Chapter 25, Jesus continues speaking:1"At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.This refers back to the end times, so the story continues.Two parables are spoken of....both refering back to the end times.Then Jesus states:31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.This refers right back to Matthew 16, the angels coming, man being rewarded. This has nothing to do with his disciples if they're going to see the end times or not. You're taking a verse out of context. Notice what it states. They will long to see the DAYS of the son of man. In other words, Jesus is stating that his disciples will wish to be with him again on earth as they have been, but will not. The "it" does not refer to the end times, it refers back to "the days of the son of man".

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done. 28I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."
The transfiguration occured right after this. Coincidence on what? The transfiguration has nothing to do with the the scripture I gave. You have no evidence to support this at all. In fact, you're only ignoring the actual evidence presented.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------Please show me:
1) The angels that were present. It is significant. Jesus gives three things that are to occur when he comes into his kingdom. Three specific things. Yet the transfiguration does not mention such an amazing occurence.---------------------------------------------------------------------------------2) Those standing before Jesus in Matthew 16 who died before they could witness the transfiguration. Its not a coincidence! You're saying bc an event follows another event they must be linked! Why do you keep bringing up all three mentioned it. IF the transfiguration actually occured, then they are explaining this event. Its a pretty big event. So of course they would mention it. But you seem to forget, Matthew and Luke copied from Mark. They're both just retelling the same story that was already written down in Mark.But you missed the crucial point. NONE DIED. Jesus stated SOME will be alive of those standing there...which means SOME have to die. No one did. So it cannot refer to the transfiguration. But it certainly backs up what Jesus stated in Matthew 24, that they will be hunted and some will flee before the end times.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------3) Where it states Jesus rewarded mankind for their actions at the transfiguration. You completely missed the point. You're claiming it refers to the transfiguration. Jesus states mankind will be rewarded. Was mankind rewarded at the transfiguration? No.Jesus is quite clear when this "reward" will be given. As per Matthew 25 and Revelation, when he returns, at the end times.I am at a loss as to what you mean by "coincidence". A coincidence refers to something similiar or the same.Yet Jesus gave three specifics, when he comes:1) Angels.
2) Some standing in front of him will die before they witness this event.
3) Mankind will be rewarded.NONE of these things occured. There isnt anything similiar about it.

Jay, you're doing it again. You're focusing on one word or verse and ignoring the actual context. The story is meant to show that mankind is responsible for using their resources/abilities so that they increase in value. Its a parable though. So its unclear what a "long time" is. Remember, a parable is a story meant to convey a point. The main point is to use your talents that god have given you.Yet everytime "near", "nearby", "around the corner","knocking at your door" etc.. are used regarding the end times, its not a story. Its not a parable. It the author conveying the time frame. None of those convey a long period of time. None. Wow. It have EVERYTHING to do with his return. Matthew 16 and Revelation clearly state when Jesus returns it will be with his angels.31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.So yes, the above does talk about his return. The sheep and goats are mankind, those who have followed Jesus and those who have not. Absolutely untrue.34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'What does it say Jay? First, it mentions the inheritence, which is heaven. So again, yes, it refers to the end of the world. Second, obviously these people know Jesus bc Jesus states they invited him in, fed him, gave him drink!41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'Here again, referencing the end times. Only those AFTER the end times will go to hell. Those who have perisehed before do not reside in heaven or hell. They "sleep". Its at the end times when god will choose which way one goes. Jesus is referencing those who ignored him, who cast him aside...and now they're being punished.Jay, how can you honestly state that Matthew 25 does not refer to the end times??You're skipping all over the place trying to salvage this huge mistake.Matthew 10, Jesus states his disciples could not possibly go through all the towns of Israel before he returns!Nothing im Matthew 16 even hints its the transfiguration. The signs are given, all three apply to the end times.1) Those disciples in front of him, some will be dead and some will be alive when he returns.
2) Angels will arrive with him.
3) Reward mankind.This concurs with Matthew 25, which backs up Revelation.In all three instances, angels will arrive and mankind will be judged.Matthew 24 clearly states his disciples would witness the signs, that they would be persecuted and flee.Matthew 25 clearly states when Jesus returns, it will be with his angles and he will seperate those who followed him and those who cast him aside.Mark 14:Again the high priest asked him, "Are you the Christ,[f] the Son of the Blessed One?"62"I am," said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."Did the high priest see Jesus during the transfiguration? Every single time Jesus states "coming on/with clouds" it refers to his return.Jesus tells the high priest he will also witness his return. So again, a time frame is given.