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Author Topic:   'Some still living' disproves literal truth of the bible
jaywill
Member (Idle past 172 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 406 of 479 (565012)
06-14-2010 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 405 by Thugpreacha
06-14-2010 10:36 AM


Re: To be raptured or not, that is the question?
Could it be that God foreknew that peoples logic, reasoning,and overall attitudes and behavior would fit well within the scope of "scoffers" mentioned in some prophecies?

I think it goes further than that.

John marveled when he saw this whore Babylon the Great the mother of prostitutes. My feeling is that he saw prophetically how degraded Christianity would become, and he marveled in amazement, negatively.

But God still obtains His overcomers. He still obtains His Bride and Wife who accompanies Him to put down the Antichrist and the devil at Armageddon.


I think where I differ from you two is that I am willing to question whether the Bible is inerrant or not, having faith that even if it was, God would still be involved. Of course, I could be wrong about that also.

I usually hang around the Bible Study Forum. I don't have a well defined position about this inerrancy matter.

The copies of Scripture clearly evidence typos, mistakes, and errors. I think at present my belief is that the originals were without error.

Now no one has ever seen one of these original inerrant autographs, true. But then again no one has ever seen an errant one either.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 405 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-14-2010 10:36 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 172 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 407 of 479 (565013)
06-14-2010 10:59 AM


When it comes to "failed prophecies" there is usually a span of time in which the temptation is strong to believe in failure.

Look at the promise of deliverance from Pharoah by Moses. The moment Pharoah demanded that they gather their own straw and stop being so idle, they must have complained about "failed prophecy".

Quite a few times from Exodus into the 40 years wandering in the wilderness the people murmured about "failed prophecy".

Someone greater than Moses is here now in Jesus Christ. Should I expect that there would be no jeerings of "failed prophecy" from the world and even theologically ?

You have to look back at the track record of the Divine. You have to go back and review God's ways, His resume.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 422 by ramoss, posted 07-03-2010 9:54 AM jaywill has not yet responded

  
John 10:10
Member (Idle past 1226 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 408 of 479 (565046)
06-14-2010 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 404 by jaywill
06-14-2010 10:32 AM


Re: To be raptured or not, that is the question?
I have strayed away from the topic a bit. What else can we say about this "failed prophecy" theory ?

I don't believe it is failed.


I too do not believe for a nanosecond that God's prophetic word has failed, or that God has failed to impart to mankind all truth necessary for sinner man to be able to enter into eternal life in our Lord Jesus Christ.

What maybe has failed is our full understanding of God's prophetic word. For me, I keep an open mind, searching daily for a better understanding of how God's prophetic word is related to past events on earth and now relates to current events on earth, if we are indeed in the final days before the end of this age.

Blessings

Edited by John 10:10, : added word


This message is a reply to:
 Message 404 by jaywill, posted 06-14-2010 10:32 AM jaywill has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 409 by jaywill, posted 06-14-2010 5:23 PM John 10:10 has responded
 Message 411 by killinghurts, posted 06-15-2010 2:05 AM John 10:10 has responded

    
jaywill
Member (Idle past 172 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 409 of 479 (565083)
06-14-2010 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 408 by John 10:10
06-14-2010 1:16 PM


Re: To be raptured or not, that is the question?
Would you comment on your take on Matthew 16:10-13.

Here the disciples question Jesus about fulfillment of prophecy. There seems a lesson within His answer.

What do you think He is teaching there ?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 408 by John 10:10, posted 06-14-2010 1:16 PM John 10:10 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 410 by John 10:10, posted 06-14-2010 7:56 PM jaywill has not yet responded

  
John 10:10
Member (Idle past 1226 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 410 of 479 (565116)
06-14-2010 7:56 PM
Reply to: Message 409 by jaywill
06-14-2010 5:23 PM


Re: To be raptured or not, that is the question?
In Matt 16:10-13 Jesus seems to be saying not to look to the opinions/teachings of what men have to say about God, but look to the truth of whom Christ declares Himself to be. This leads to the truth of vs 19 where Jesus reveals that the only true work can we do on earth in His name is work that has already been done by Him in heaven.

Blessings


This message is a reply to:
 Message 409 by jaywill, posted 06-14-2010 5:23 PM jaywill has not yet responded

    
killinghurts
Member (Idle past 3224 days)
Posts: 150
Joined: 04-23-2008


Message 411 of 479 (565153)
06-15-2010 2:05 AM
Reply to: Message 408 by John 10:10
06-14-2010 1:16 PM


Re: To be raptured or not, that is the question?
"John 10:10" writes:

I too do not believe for a nanosecond that God's prophetic word has failed, or that God has failed to impart to mankind all truth necessary for sinner man to be able to enter into eternal life in our Lord Jesus Christ.

Serious question - why then do you enter into this debate? If you cannot accept, even for a nanosecond, any kind of rational alternative are you simply responding for some other kind of self gratification?

"John 10:10" writes:


What maybe has failed is our full understanding of God's prophetic word. For me, I keep an open mind,

Open to anything? Even to the prospect of a failed prophecy?

"John 10:10" writes:


searching daily for a better understanding of how God's prophetic word

Seems not..

Hmmm

I see you are fitting your "evidence":

"John 10:10" writes:


is related to past events on earth and now relates to current events on earth,

To your conclusion:

"John 10:10" writes:


if we are indeed in the final days before the end of this age.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 408 by John 10:10, posted 06-14-2010 1:16 PM John 10:10 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 412 by John 10:10, posted 06-15-2010 9:40 AM killinghurts has responded

  
John 10:10
Member (Idle past 1226 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 412 of 479 (565171)
06-15-2010 9:40 AM
Reply to: Message 411 by killinghurts
06-15-2010 2:05 AM


Re: To be raptured or not, that is the question?
Serious question - why then do you enter into this debate? If you cannot accept, even for a nanosecond, any kind of rational alternative are you simply responding for some other kind of self gratification?

This reply was shared with a Believer in the Lord Jesus Christ. I do not expect most unbelievers will accept this truth, but it may cause some sinners to enter into the salvation our Lord gives,

"Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself." (Acts 2:38-39).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 411 by killinghurts, posted 06-15-2010 2:05 AM killinghurts has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 413 by killinghurts, posted 06-16-2010 9:10 PM John 10:10 has responded

    
killinghurts
Member (Idle past 3224 days)
Posts: 150
Joined: 04-23-2008


Message 413 of 479 (565447)
06-16-2010 9:10 PM
Reply to: Message 412 by John 10:10
06-15-2010 9:40 AM


Re: To be raptured or not, that is the question?
"John 10:10" writes:

This reply was shared with a Believer in the Lord Jesus Christ. I do not expect most unbelievers will accept this truth, but it may cause some sinners to enter into the salvation our Lord gives,
"Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself." (Acts 2:38-39).

Cool story, however, does your reply change when it is shared with an 'unbeliever'?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 412 by John 10:10, posted 06-15-2010 9:40 AM John 10:10 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 414 by John 10:10, posted 06-17-2010 10:10 AM killinghurts has not yet responded

  
John 10:10
Member (Idle past 1226 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 414 of 479 (565491)
06-17-2010 10:10 AM
Reply to: Message 413 by killinghurts
06-16-2010 9:10 PM


As many as the Lord our God will call to Himself
Cool story, however, does your reply change when it is shared with an 'unbeliever'?

I know God's word has never failed to save those who repent according to Acts 2:38, those the Lord our God is calling to Himself according to Acts 2:39.

Maybe you would like to show the Believers at this forum where/when you think God's prophetic word has failed?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 413 by killinghurts, posted 06-16-2010 9:10 PM killinghurts has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 415 by hERICtic, posted 06-29-2010 9:10 PM John 10:10 has responded
 Message 416 by Taq, posted 06-30-2010 2:02 AM John 10:10 has responded
 Message 423 by Coragyps, posted 07-03-2010 10:14 AM John 10:10 has responded

    
hERICtic
Member (Idle past 2747 days)
Posts: 371
Joined: 08-18-2009


Message 415 of 479 (567169)
06-29-2010 9:10 PM
Reply to: Message 414 by John 10:10
06-17-2010 10:10 AM


Re: As many as the Lord our God will call to Himself
There are so many instances in scripture of failed prophecy. Only through lying and/or delusion can one make them work.

A crystal clear on is Matthew 16. It clearly speaks of Jesus returning during his disciples lifetime.

Matthew 24 is even more specific. I tried with Jay to show this, but he refused to actually engage in a mature debate.

Perhaps you would like to have a civil discussion on this?

Finally, after much prodding, Jay stated that Matthew 24 has the disciples asking Jesus for sign that he shall return.

Jay then admitted that the signs were for those in the time line as well as those today (you or those in the future).

Do you agree with this assessment?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 414 by John 10:10, posted 06-17-2010 10:10 AM John 10:10 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 417 by John 10:10, posted 07-01-2010 10:16 AM hERICtic has responded

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 7997
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 416 of 479 (567200)
06-30-2010 2:02 AM
Reply to: Message 414 by John 10:10
06-17-2010 10:10 AM


Re: As many as the Lord our God will call to Himself
Maybe you would like to show the Believers at this forum where/when you think God's prophetic word has failed?

Ecclesiastes 11:5 (New International Version)

5 As you do not know the path of the wind,
or how the body is formed in a mother's womb,
so you cannot understand the work of God,
the Maker of all things.

These verses prophesy that man can not track the wind nor understand fetal development. Through weather satellites, developmental biology, genetics, and ultrasound we now know these things. Failed prophesy.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 414 by John 10:10, posted 06-17-2010 10:10 AM John 10:10 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 418 by John 10:10, posted 07-01-2010 10:20 AM Taq has not yet responded

  
John 10:10
Member (Idle past 1226 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 417 of 479 (567472)
07-01-2010 10:16 AM
Reply to: Message 415 by hERICtic
06-29-2010 9:10 PM


Re: As many as the Lord our God will call to Himself
There is a big difference between Jesus "coming in His kingdom" (Matt 16:28) which he did after His resurrection (Matt 28:18-20), and Jesus "coming again" (John 14:3) to be Lord over all the earth (Zech 14:9).

Those who refuse our Lord's salvation kingdom now will not be a part of His kingdom when He comes again.

It's as simple and as difficult as that!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 415 by hERICtic, posted 06-29-2010 9:10 PM hERICtic has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 419 by hERICtic, posted 07-02-2010 6:23 AM John 10:10 has responded

    
John 10:10
Member (Idle past 1226 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 418 of 479 (567475)
07-01-2010 10:20 AM
Reply to: Message 416 by Taq
06-30-2010 2:02 AM


Re: As many as the Lord our God will call to Himself
Eccles 3:11

He has made everything appropriate in its time. He has also set eternity in their heart, yet so that man will not find out the work which God has done from the beginning even to the end.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 416 by Taq, posted 06-30-2010 2:02 AM Taq has not yet responded

    
hERICtic
Member (Idle past 2747 days)
Posts: 371
Joined: 08-18-2009


Message 419 of 479 (567671)
07-02-2010 6:23 AM
Reply to: Message 417 by John 10:10
07-01-2010 10:16 AM


Re: As many as the Lord our God will call to Himself
John writes:

There is a big difference between Jesus "coming in His kingdom" (Matt 16:28) which he did after His resurrection (Matt 28:18-20), and Jesus "coming again" (John 14:3) to be Lord over all the earth (Zech 14:9).
Those who refuse our Lord's salvation kingdom now will not be a part of His kingdom when He comes again.

It's as simple and as difficult as that.

You didnt address anything. You asked about failed prophecy, yet ignored Matthew 24.

Are we in agreement that in Matthew 24 that his disciples ask when Jesus will return and Jesus gives a list of signs that will precede his return?

Are we in agreement that the end times are to occur once?

Are we in agreement that Matthew 25 refers to the return of Jesus?

Are we in agreement that Revelation 22 refers to Jesus and his return?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 417 by John 10:10, posted 07-01-2010 10:16 AM John 10:10 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 420 by John 10:10, posted 07-02-2010 9:34 AM hERICtic has responded

    
John 10:10
Member (Idle past 1226 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 420 of 479 (567701)
07-02-2010 9:34 AM
Reply to: Message 419 by hERICtic
07-02-2010 6:23 AM


Re: As many as the Lord our God will call to Himself
As for the Matt 16:28 "some" seeing the Son of Man coming in His kingdom, I seem to have read in Rev 19 where John was given a vision of our Lord's future return at the end of the age.

As for Matt 24, the end of the age will come when the Church on earth finishes the work on earth our Lord has called us to do in verse 14,

"This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come."

Will you be a part of this work our Lord Jesus has called us to do?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 419 by hERICtic, posted 07-02-2010 6:23 AM hERICtic has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 421 by hERICtic, posted 07-03-2010 7:55 AM John 10:10 has responded

    
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