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Member (Idle past 92 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Precognition Causality Quantum Theory and Mysticism | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Izanagi Member (Idle past 5243 days) Posts: 263 Joined: |
His whole thing seems to be to take science to the masses by making people think that their anecdotes and wishful thinking are as valid as the closed minded experiments conducted by the biased scientific elite. His books and internet "research" are prime examples of this thinking.
Well, I'm assuming we're in agreement about Sheldrake then? In effect a million claims of telepthic dogs is worth more than a single double blind randomised trial. I mean that many people cannot be deluded or wrong can they? How dare scientists dismiss this overwhelming pool of evidence just to sustain their empire of exclusivity and knowledge. You might as well ask people if their babies are cute as ask people to objectively assess whether or not their pets are "special". Disregarding the moneymakers, can we agree that if the phenomenon of telepathy could be studied under rigorous, scientific methodology and explained naturalistically, then telepathy is at least possible? It's just some things you never get over. That's just the way it is. You go on through... best as you can. - Matthew Scott ---------------------------------------- Marge, just about everything is a sin. (holds up a Bible) Y'ever sat down and read this thing? Technically we're not supposed to go to the bathroom. - Reverend Lovejoy ---------------------------------------- You know, I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair. Then I thought, wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair, and all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually deserve them? So, now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe. - Marcus Cole
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Izanagi Member (Idle past 5243 days) Posts: 263 Joined:
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Izanagi, what is telepathy?
Actually, I posited an naturalistic explanation in Message 138 for telepathy that no one apparently read. But then, I guess my posts are too stupid for people to read.Well, it's a transfer of thought or ideas between people. Oh, how does that work? Good question, it's a type of field. Really, a field? How does it appear in the action? Errr, what's an action??? My idea is that brainwaves could be the root cause of telepathy. Since brainwaves can be measured, an experiment measuring the brainwaves of the dogs could be done. ABE: The person who's marking my posts as ones, you're missing a few. Edited by Izanagi, : No reason given. It's just some things you never get over. That's just the way it is. You go on through... best as you can. - Matthew Scott ---------------------------------------- Marge, just about everything is a sin. (holds up a Bible) Y'ever sat down and read this thing? Technically we're not supposed to go to the bathroom. - Reverend Lovejoy ---------------------------------------- You know, I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair. Then I thought, wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair, and all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually deserve them? So, now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe. - Marcus Cole
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Straggler Member (Idle past 92 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined:
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String Theory and MWI I am a little more skeptical of since I haven't read anything about evidence that directly supports those theories (although there was an interesting article I happened upon that said M-Theory could explain something about the Quantum-Critical State, which suggests to me that M-Theory might be falsifiable in the future). These are mathematical conjectures. Not physical evidence of anything in themselves as such. But extrapolations of models that (to the best of our knowledge) work. However we have made major discoveries on exactly this basis before so these methods of prediction and discovery have "form". In effect our models are based on reality and the extrapolation of these models provides us with possibilities that may or may not turn out to be further features of reality. Ultimately only experiment will tell. But these possibilities are objectively evidenced in the sense that they are directly and logically derived from the facts of reality as we know it to be.
And I am very skeptical of Sheldrake's explanation of morphic fields, because its vague and unfalsifiable Morphic fields are no more derived from reality than is the proposition that immaterial goblins teleport around whispering information into the psychic ears of Sheldrake's test subjects. They are an ad-hoc pseudoscientific explanation. The only evidence for morphic fields is the phenomenon it seeks to explain. And that is a blatantly circular argument.
That said, if there is evidence for telepathy, then I think the phenomenon itself should be looked into and naturalistic explanations conceived. Yes. But let no-one conflate the phenomenon under investigation and the irrefutable explanation for said phenomenon (i.e. morphic fields) such that one circularly becomes evidence for the other. Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.
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cavediver Member (Idle past 3670 days) Posts: 4129 From: UK Joined: |
In the future I hope you will refrain from insulting me for what you perceive to be gross misinformation on my part. I only insult you for what IS gross misinformation on your part. You display a common net attitude of taking to heart what you read and then attempt to wield it with a completely undeserved authority. That is what I find insulting. ABE: I have just seen this
And I'm telling you that loop quantum gravity also explains gravity without the extra dimensions. It seems to me that LQG is a better theory than string theory as it parsimonious. thank fuck you are here to help us out. Jeez, the years I've spent bashing through the most horrendous mathematics to try to get som einsight into qunatum gravity, and Izanagi here has cracked it with a quick appeal to parsimony. Where the fuck were you when I needed you? And you talk about me being insulting Edited by cavediver, : No reason given.
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onifre Member (Idle past 2977 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
And I'm telling you that loop quantum gravity also explains gravity without the extra dimensions. It seems to me that LQG is a better theory than string theory as it parsimonious. It seems to you? Does it? Well fuck, ok then, lets shut down the theoretical physics departments around the world. You missed the point. I don't care if QLT (which I actually like too) predicts gravity. The point here is that String MAKES A PREDICTION, telepathy does not. Why on earth did you introduce QLT into this?
From Peter Woit's blog about multiple universes (MWI):
quote: and about String Theory found here:
quote: Lee Smolin on multiple universe:
quote: and from his book, "The Trouble with Physics: the Rise of String Theory, the Fall of a Science, and What Comes Next"
quote: Phillip Warren Anderson in his article to the NYT:
quote: Sheldon Glashow and a quote from his interview with NOVA:
quote: And another:
quote: Lawrence Krauss about his debate against Brian Greene:
quote: And Carlo Rovelli about string theory:
quote: Yes, and as I suspected, NOT ONE OF THEM calls it pseudoscience as you claimed. Thanks for proving me right.
Astrophysicists saw the Universe was expanding faster than models predicted and hypothesized dark energy to explain it. This is analogous to Straggler's contention that Sheldrake saw a phenomenon and hypothesized telepathy to explain it. Energy and matter are both well understood, and are both capable of forcing the universe to expand. Are you being thrown off by the mysterious use of the word "dark"? It's matter and energy. Now, what's telepathy?
And apparently it's still incomplete, sort of like the description for telepathy. Oh, OK. Then tell me at least what the field that telepathy uses is? Or, just tell me ANYTHING about how it works.
Yet you accept M-Theory despite the fact that it is incomplete. I am not qualified to accept or reject those theories. The math is way to advanced for me. Personally, I thought QLT was easier to understand.
So why can you accept an incomplete M-Theory and not an incomplete concept of telepathy? There is NO concept for telepathy equal to that of M-theory, incomplete or otherwise.
What's dark matter? What's dark energy? Matter and energy...do you not recognize those 2 things in the name? It's not describing something supernatural.
What mechanisms do they use? - Do you even know what you're asking for at this point? What "mechanism" do neutrinos use? Here, I'll give you the definition of neutrinos and see if you could tell me what mechanism they use:
They are elementary particles that often travel close to the speed of light, lack an electric charge, are able to pass through ordinary matter almost undisturbed and are thus extremely difficult to detect. Neutrinos have a minuscule, but nonzero mass. Any clue yet? I hope you're going with the conclusion that asking what mechanism neutrinos use is a nonsensical question. Likewise, asking what mechanism dark matter/energy use is also a nonsensical question. - Oni
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Izanagi Member (Idle past 5243 days) Posts: 263 Joined: |
Then we are in agreement. Haha, apparently a whole night spent arguing and it turns out we agree. The silliness of life.
It's just some things you never get over. That's just the way it is. You go on through... best as you can. - Matthew Scott ---------------------------------------- Marge, just about everything is a sin. (holds up a Bible) Y'ever sat down and read this thing? Technically we're not supposed to go to the bathroom. - Reverend Lovejoy ---------------------------------------- You know, I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair. Then I thought, wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair, and all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually deserve them? So, now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe. - Marcus Cole
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Straggler Member (Idle past 92 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined:
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Well, I'm assuming we're in agreement about Sheldrake then? So it seems
Disregarding the moneymakers, can we agree that if the phenomenon of telepathy could be studied under rigorous, scientific methodology and explained naturalistically, then telepathy is at least possible? Yes. See Message 112.
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Izanagi Member (Idle past 5243 days) Posts: 263 Joined: |
I only insult you for what IS gross misinformation on your part. You display a common net attitude of taking to heart what you read and then attempt to wield it with a completely undeserved authority.
The you should correct that gross misinformation on my part by pointing me to where I can find better information. I assume that's the job of a teacher, not to insult the student for making a wrong statement, right? I don't take to heart what I read. I read about one subject over multiple sites to make sure the information is corroborated. If all those sites I go to agree, then what am I supposed to do? It's just some things you never get over. That's just the way it is. You go on through... best as you can. - Matthew Scott ---------------------------------------- Marge, just about everything is a sin. (holds up a Bible) Y'ever sat down and read this thing? Technically we're not supposed to go to the bathroom. - Reverend Lovejoy ---------------------------------------- You know, I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair. Then I thought, wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair, and all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually deserve them? So, now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe. - Marcus Cole
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Izanagi Member (Idle past 5243 days) Posts: 263 Joined: |
Now, what's telepathy?
I explained what I think telepathy is. To me, it could be specific brainwave patterns. We can test for brainwaves. The explanation lies in the natural world. It is falsifiable.
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Izanagi Member (Idle past 5243 days) Posts: 263 Joined: |
Izanagi here has cracked it with a quick appeal to parsimony. Where the fuck were you when I needed you?
That seems odd, because I've noticed a few threads about Evolution that suggest that parsimony is a desired quality in a theory. Is that wrong? ABE: Ah, nevermind... misread Edited by Izanagi, : No reason given. It's just some things you never get over. That's just the way it is. You go on through... best as you can. - Matthew Scott ---------------------------------------- Marge, just about everything is a sin. (holds up a Bible) Y'ever sat down and read this thing? Technically we're not supposed to go to the bathroom. - Reverend Lovejoy ---------------------------------------- You know, I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair. Then I thought, wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair, and all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually deserve them? So, now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe. - Marcus Cole
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onifre Member (Idle past 2977 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
I explained what I think telepathy is. To me, it could be specific brainwave patterns. Brainwave patterns that do what, travel to someone elses brain?
We can test for brainwaves. They do. Brainwaves are contained in your head. Is telepathy "travelling brainwaves"...? - Oni
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cavediver Member (Idle past 3670 days) Posts: 4129 From: UK Joined: |
The you should correct that gross misinformation on my part by pointing me to where I can find better information. I assume that's the job of a teacher, not to insult the student for making a wrong statement, right? You are most certainly not my student. But those students of mine who have taken it upon themselves to spout bullshit with authority have been well and truly insulted. Don't confuse making mistakes with causing others to make mistakes, because of your own erroneous proclamations. But here's a correction of something I have only just noticed - you seem to have a very wrong understanding of MWI, and seem to think it has something to do with multiverses and the Landscape. It doesn't...
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Izanagi Member (Idle past 5243 days) Posts: 263 Joined: |
They do. Brainwaves are contained in your head. Is telepathy "travelling brainwaves"...?
How should I know, I never gave it much thought. But the fact that you are now mocking my, what I am assuming is, a naturalistic explanation tells me you won't consider the argument. MRI scans, EEG readings are ways we can see if there's anything going on in the brain during the supposed "telepathic" event. The explanation is rooted in the natural world and therefore falsifiable. Do the experiments and prove me wrong and it wouldn't matter one lick to me. It's just some things you never get over. That's just the way it is. You go on through... best as you can. - Matthew Scott ---------------------------------------- Marge, just about everything is a sin. (holds up a Bible) Y'ever sat down and read this thing? Technically we're not supposed to go to the bathroom. - Reverend Lovejoy ---------------------------------------- You know, I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair. Then I thought, wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair, and all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually deserve them? So, now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe. - Marcus Cole
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Straggler Member (Idle past 92 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined:
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At least one person seems to be open to some of the evidence here. Do you at least agree that in subsequent tests Sheldrake should be able to make "blind" predictions about the leaving time of the owner based on the behaviour of the dog alone if his hypothesis is true? Surely even you can see that this is more objective than simply correlating two sets of data and applying the statistical analysis required to get the desired answer?
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Izanagi Member (Idle past 5243 days) Posts: 263 Joined: |
You are most certainly not my student. But those students of mine who have taken it upon themselves to spout bullshit with authority have been well and truly insulted. Don't confuse making mistakes with causing others to make mistakes, because of your own erroneous proclamations.
I may not be, but if you had any interest in helping us lowly and common netizens truly understand those concepts, then you would have put me on the right track. The fact that you didn't only tells me that you don't care if we get the correct information and are only interested in insulting people who haven't taken multiple classes in QM. Good for you for picking on someone and not helping to understand the field better. Good for you for showing that elitist nature of scientists. The question I ask is have you done anything to solve the ignorance on my part? You seem capable of only criticizing, even when a person genuinely wants to learn. So good for you in instilling in people the desire to find the correct information so that they can better understand things. It's just some things you never get over. That's just the way it is. You go on through... best as you can. - Matthew Scott ---------------------------------------- Marge, just about everything is a sin. (holds up a Bible) Y'ever sat down and read this thing? Technically we're not supposed to go to the bathroom. - Reverend Lovejoy ---------------------------------------- You know, I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair. Then I thought, wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair, and all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually deserve them? So, now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe. - Marcus Cole
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