The Psychology Behind the Belief in Heaven and Hell

The more I think about this the more it seems logical to me that if there is an Ultimate Governor of the universe who necessarily has nothing and no one greater or truer than Himself, it is His responsibility that any revolt against Him can not win.Eternal damnation is the impossibility of winning against God. To revolt against God only to melt peacefully into non-existence would be to win against God. Eternal punishment makes this impossible.As fearsome as the idea is, in my latter Christian years, it makes sense in kind of fearsome way. But so because there cannot be and is not anything truer and more righteous than God. Apparantly, the final bond between men and women and Christ is to be so close in eternity that marriage or kinship pales in intimacy to it. We read that in eternity the redeemed no longer marry or are given in marriage. This most intimate union between human beings will not rival the oneness between the saved and thier Redeemer who died and rose for them.In this life we do not fully see things the way God sees things. So we may stagger at the thought of loved ones having perished. The time to be concerned for that is now. But in eternity when we see things fully the way God sees things we will be in full harmony with the Divine Will.The time to interceed in prayer, in petition and announcing the gospel message is now today. God will hear our prayers and save them. I don't worry about how I will feel in eternity future. I concern myself with what I can do for their salvation today while there is opportunity. I notice passages like this: The effect this has on me is that the witness of the "holy angels" testifies the purity of the sentence in justice. And that the Lamb, the Redeemer Jesus looks on, also testifies that He observes the just recompense for spurning His death for them on His cross. He as the Son of God died for them that they might be saved. His agony in separation from His Father in His loving sacrifice and torment for their sins has been rejected.With the "holy angels" He now observes their just reward for spurning the salvation of God which had been extended to them.Likewise, I notice that in the pouring out of the final bowls of the wrath of God, both the angels and the redeemed humans declare that God's judgment on the rebels is righteous and just: It is the "righteous judgments" that have been manifested. There is nothing perverse, unfair, unrighteous in them.I have to consider that I still need to be conformed to the image of Christ more in my being. To love what God loves and to hate what God hates is my destiny in eternity. And I perceive that there will be no sense of God's righteous judgment of being perverse. Rather, His redemptive death in Christ for man's salvation is forever appreciated and the rejection and revolt against it will be seen as through the eyes of Savior God. The offense of turning His redeeming love away as a crime justly rewarded as God sees appropriate.The time to cry for men's salvation in prayer and pleading for them to accept the Savior is today.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

"Okay, now I've become a born again Christian. What's next?" Is that what you're asking ?It would be nice if you were sincere. Since you probably are not what's next is of course more of the same for you -collecting arguments, disputing, mocking, ignoring, trying to debunk, nullify, render irrelevant, reject and otherwise sneer at the counsels of God for yourself.With your mock conversion, isn't that the next thing on your agenda?Am I being too hard on you ?I apologize if I am. If ...Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

That sign read something about reason being an enemy of faith, didn't it? I think the sign is too general. God says "Come let us reason together." And the we read of "your most reasonable service" of allowing your mind to be renewed by the Spirit of Christ so that you may present yourself to serve Him.But these kinds of reasonings are not so funny. I think the sign may have been speaking about the kind of reasoning which often assaults biblical faith for reason like the above.Jesus talked about the sinner's evil reasonings proceeding out of the heart of man. Sagan should talk.Anyway, it is a genetic fallacy. Deep seated reasons to believe something do not necessarily make that which is believed untrue.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

I see this dictionary definition of HEAR: Notice "to gain information : learn b : to receive communication" In this case it did not say it had to be an audible communication or the information has to be in sound only.I think you can loosen up a little on the word "hear".

Thanks for the link. I do not want to misquote or attribute a quote to the wrong person. You've succeeded in suspicioning me about it. I don't think I wrote that we should trust every religious person who says t hey were once atheists. Are you claiming that we should trust none of them ? I think both extremes would be unwise. You don't know that. Besides it seems like an argument from popularity. But neither did they believe in the non-existence of God. Come now. That is ridiculous.1.) Indoctrination does not necessarily mean that the doctrine is not true.2.) Not all believers in God were brought up in Sunday School.3.) Seventh Day Adventist don't have Sunday School because their day for such spiritual gatherings is Saturday.Nitpicky, I admit.4.) Some people became skeptical about God in Sunday School and did not becomes believers until after they got out of that environment. Ie, left organized religious instruction and latter became believers in God in an independent way. Sounds like Mike. Jokes about trite religious signs on a lawn don't do a whole lot to address the issue either.

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Thanks for the confirmation.Before I read it I decided that I would delete what I wrote for some reasons between me and the Lord.My tone just does not come out right many times.Anyway folks, what I quote was the gates of Hades would not prevail against the builded church."The church of God is an anvil that has worn out many hammers."
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The subject is the Psychology Behind the Belief in Heaven and Hell.I do not regard Hell (eternal perdition is what is meant here) as vindicative. The Ultimate Governor must show that He loves righteousness and hates iniquity. Rewards and punisments must be maintained to manifest that.God has laws. If the laws have threats they must be executed. God must be true. He is not only a righteous Governor, He is the last and ultimate righteous Governor. He must manifest that beyond Him, behind Him, above Him, besides Him there is NO appeal. I regard this as a matter of divine responsibility.There is no question that there is ample ruling mercy seen throughout the Bible. God corrects man, forgives man, remedies his iniquity to a very extensive degree. Who can read the 150 Psalms and not see God's longsuffering and mercy at work.Yet God's longsuffering have also caused some to be hardened all the more against Him.God must eventually show His own character of hatred against sin. He is not careless as to whether His law is obeyed or not. He will win glory from every created being whether friend or foe. To the worlds to be created hereafter the unrepentent rebels must serve as a testimony that creation cannot revolt and win against its ultimate Creator and Governor.Before He became a man in Jesus Christ and suffered the divine judgment on His cross, God taught by example. The stubburn son who would not be corrected was to be stoned in the harsh Old Testament "ministry of condemnation" - [b]"So shalt thou put away the evil from you and all Israel shall hear and fear." (Deut. 21:21; 17:13; 19:20; 3:111).The patience and longsuffering of God causes some to be emboldened to condemn God as evil and themselves as righteous.God's final judgment of the revolting opposition is consitent perfectly with His goodness to others who repent, who love God and obey to receive His salvation. The welfare of the others is hopeless. Divine wrath will destroy them in torment. Retribution is inflicted. The dead wood is only fit to be burned.What we should marvel at is that in Christ the possibility for the total removal of guilty sins is available to all. Time is not a limitation. Just because there are some unkowns as to how some people can respond to a Jesus they never knew in life, does not mean God is not wise enough to afford them the opportunity.This must be assumed because of perculiar passages which indicate that some people judged temporally in the Old Testament would rise in judgment and condemn those who rejected the Gospel.For example: The strong implication seems to be that there were people who perished in Sodom who were not beyond the ability to repent to God. The details of how God works this fairness out, I do not know.The implication of the passage is that at some judgment sinners from Sodom may shake their heads at other societies which rejected the message of Jesus asking "What was WRONG with those people anyway?"Perhaps they will ask this of some modern Capernaum like civilization that is "exalted to heaven" with their proud scientific knowledge, who feel they can discard the message of Jesus Christ and the Gospel of the kingdom. What need do they have for it?Jesus has already gone to hell for everybody. We need to receive His gift of redemption and eternal life. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

The cynical case you seem to be making is that salvation in Christ is kind of "cheap". The saved can "get away" with a lot.It implies that this "free" forgiveness allows the sinner to get off with a lot of things as if God is not too bright. Or may God didn't think this out too well. I mean I get a "null and void" concerning my sins, but what's to stop me from continuing to sin even more?Well, as I read the New Testament carefully I seriously don't see how anyone is getting away with anything.Now I won't belabor the matter unless you have a genuine interest. But consider one thing. Paul is speaking to Christians in the book of Galatians. These are saved. These are forgiven. These are redeemed and have received eternal redemption.To such ones, he writes: There are many many passages in the New Testament with this tone. They are warnings to CHRISTIANS, for whom the question of eternal redemption has been settled.What you have to realize is that God has many ways to deal with man aside from eternal punishment. It is foolish to think someone as wise as God is locked into His own system so that He cannot dispense the needed discipline to His children to perfect them.If you were genuinely interested to look into this on more than a superfiscial level, I would suggest a book to you: "The Judgment Seat of Christ" by D.M. Panton. Schoettle Publishers You can take a position that "Ignorance is Bliss" and hold to a strawman argument. Or you can educate yourself to see what is the process of discipline to those for whom eternal redemption has been secured.I think it depends on your level of interest.

I am not sure what English version you are quoting. But it should be "For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified" (Heb. 10:14)Was that a typo? Did you mean to write "perfected" rather than "protected"?As the verse says: There you go. You have it that time. That is 10:14. This still cannot be taken as anykind of license to exploit "cheap grace". In fact the book of Hebrews is exactly the book one would NOT want to appeal to. It is a letter filled with at least five serious warnings to Christians to either continue to mature or grow.Did you notice that phrase "those who are BEING sanctified"?On one hand, yes, they are perfected forever. From another angle they are in the process of BEING sanctified. The whole book of Hebrews has repeated warnings to Christians to cooperate in the ongoing process of BEING sanctified.And there are strong consequences for those who do not cooperate.So then, the disciples are to be perfected forever. But there is nothing assuring them that they will all arrive at this perfection at the same time.Perfection through the process of sanctification therefore can be postponed or procrastinated upon. It cannot be put off forever.Do you understand? I'm sorry but that is totally absurd. He may of wanted to live until he saw Christ physically return. So does every true lover of the Lord Jesus Christ. But he made provision for his colleagues in case that was not to be the case.Paul towards the end of his ministry expected to die. He did not expect that Gospel propogation would die with him. This would be totally against the tone of his letters to hs co-worker Timothy in First and Second Timothy. I suggest that you also read the whole book of Hebrews. At least back up a chapter and read your quotation in context of the surrounding discussion before and afterwards.Paul here expects disciples of Christ "in the latter times" for some will depart from the faith. In the latter times there will be on earth a FAITH, a Christian faith which some will depart from.He expected that if he departed the Christian faith would continue to be propogated. And his instructions to Timothy prove that. He did not expect the Gospel to die with him.The sacrificing of Jesus does not in anyway necessitate there being no disciples of Christ for years or centries to come.Paul writes that as to the past, the Christians have been reconciled to God by the death of God's Son. On that bases they are being much more saved, organically, in the realm of His life: As to Christ's sacrificial death, they have been judicially reconciled to God.As to His living in them to be their life, they are to be saved "much more" in the realm of His divine life. That speaks of ongoing subjective sanctification and transformation.In other words. simply to be forgiven is not the end in itself. But to be forgiven via His death is the basis upon which they can be transformed into His image by His indwelling life.A judicial redemption through His sacrifice goes before and an organic salvation in the realm of His life continues after.Some evangelicals seem to make forgiveness and end in itself. Some careful reading of the Scriptures for yourself might remedy this misunderstanding. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

In the same book you also have exhortations to be imitators of those who are inheriting the promises. Sure, they have been perfected forever by one sacrifice. That is judicially. Organically they need to be brought on to maturity in life.This requires long-suffering. This takes time. Those "perfected forever" still need time and long-suffering to be in the process of subjective dispositional sanctification.Some are inheriting the promises. Others should not be sluggish but go on to be imitators of those who are matured.There are too many passages in the book of Henbrews which state the same thing in other words. They must be brought on, come forward, mature, grow.Christ sacrifice and positional sanctification does not make null the need for our dispositional sanctification. The latter is a life long process.

His death was for the forgiveness of our sins. But what about our character? Is that changed instantaneously?To be born again only takes and instant. But to be transformed into His image is from one degree of glory to another - successive degrees: Those perfected forever need to be transformed by degrees - from one degree of glory and expression to another degree of glory and expression.This is a life long process upon those who have been forgiven because of Christ's sacrificial death.In chapter 10 of Hebrews, in the very book you quoted in verse 22 the writers urges those perfected to come forward. Having their consciences sprinkled by the blood of Jesus so that condemnation would be dealt with, let them now come forward to deeper and deeper intimate fellowship with God.The writer includes himself "let us come forward". As perfectred as he may have been he did not want to linger back. He wanted to come forward to God. He wanted to make progress.Being perfected forever by Christ's sacrifice does not negate the need to make spiritual progress. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.