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Author Topic:   Squaring circles: direct biblical contradictions
iano
Member (Idle past 2194 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 23 of 161 (531824)
10-20-2009 5:32 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Blzebub
10-17-2009 4:57 PM


A personal favorite..
Bzlbub writes:
5. God prohibits killing:
God prohibits man killing. Thou = man
God orders killing
God doesn't prohibit God killing. Thou not= God.
In this case God is the killer and man the weapon of Gods choice. Man isn't subject to the law which prohibits him deciding to kill off his own bat in this case (think of our own laws prohibiting killing yet that same authority can instruct us to kill (executioner/soldier))
Edited by iano, : No reason given.

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 Message 1 by Blzebub, posted 10-17-2009 4:57 PM Blzebub has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Blzebub, posted 10-20-2009 10:42 AM iano has seen this message but not replied
 Message 31 by Blzebub, posted 10-20-2009 1:50 PM iano has replied

  
iano
Member (Idle past 2194 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 43 of 161 (532143)
10-21-2009 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Blzebub
10-20-2009 1:50 PM


Re: A personal favorite..
God prohibits humans from killing other humans. Later, he orders humans to kill other humans. If god had wanted the second group to be killed, then he should have found another method, rather than having to countermand his earlier commandment, and appear inconsistent. An earthquake, or something of that kind, would have done the trick.
And the distinction drawn between state prohibited killing and state authorised killing? You seem to have sidestepped that point.
-
My earlier criticism still stands, though.
No it doesn't. The state authority round here says so.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Blzebub, posted 10-20-2009 1:50 PM Blzebub has replied

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 Message 44 by Blzebub, posted 10-21-2009 4:16 PM iano has replied

  
iano
Member (Idle past 2194 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


(1)
Message 54 of 161 (532248)
10-22-2009 9:31 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by Blzebub
10-21-2009 4:16 PM


Re: A personal favorite..
Soldiers are voluteers, not commanded by god (except in the case of the Dubbya Iraq invasion, when god spoke directly to His Dubbyaness)
Whether or not a soldier is a volunteer (and they very often aren't) is neither here nor there. What's here or there is my point that an authority forbidding killing and that same authority commanding killing is not a contradiction. At least not when their commanding a killing positions the authority as the moral agent and the person doing the killing as a mere instrument of killing.

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 Message 44 by Blzebub, posted 10-21-2009 4:16 PM Blzebub has replied

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 Message 59 by Blzebub, posted 10-22-2009 12:51 PM iano has replied

  
iano
Member (Idle past 2194 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 68 of 161 (532311)
10-22-2009 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Blzebub
10-22-2009 12:51 PM


Re: A personal favorite..
Bzlebub writes:
Well, I admire your logic, but not your biblical/christian morals. I think killing other humans is wrong in nearly every circumstance, other than possibly voluntary euthanasia, and even there, it's dodgy.
It doesn't much matter what you think. What matters is an authorities ability to both forbid killing and instruct killing without there being a contradiction involved.
And unless you have some other line of argumentation that supports the charge of contradiction I'll take this supposed one at least, as having been resolved for you.

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 Message 59 by Blzebub, posted 10-22-2009 12:51 PM Blzebub has replied

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 Message 70 by Blzebub, posted 10-22-2009 4:37 PM iano has replied

  
iano
Member (Idle past 2194 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 71 of 161 (532325)
10-22-2009 6:16 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by Blzebub
10-22-2009 4:37 PM


Re: A personal favorite..
Bzlebub writes:
What seems to matter to you is to defend this point, even at the cost of admitting that "god" uses men as some kind of proxy weapon against other men. Can't you see how ridiculous this appears?
I don't have to admit God uses men as a weapon against other men. You've already accepted the Bible states as much yourself..remember?
Bzlebub's OP writes:
God orders killing
I gather dropping the charge of contradiction in this case isn't going to appear on your agenda so I'll leave things here having come a full circle with you.

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 Message 70 by Blzebub, posted 10-22-2009 4:37 PM Blzebub has replied

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 Message 78 by Blzebub, posted 10-23-2009 3:10 AM iano has seen this message but not replied

  
iano
Member (Idle past 2194 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 110 of 161 (532667)
10-25-2009 1:39 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by purpledawn
10-24-2009 9:29 PM


The Law vs. The Law
Purpledawn writes:
Matthew 5:18 "I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."
And yet in reality Christianity dumped the majority of the Law.
Rather than dumping the Law I think you'll find a change in
juristictions
has come about in the life of a Christian. They are no longer subject to the 'law of sin and death' but have been transferred to a realm in which they are beholden to the 'law of the spirit of life that is in Christ Jesus'.
Whereas the penalty involved in breaking the law of sin and death .. is death, the penalty for breaking the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus is (largely speaking) knowing you've spat in the face of He who loves you.

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 Message 107 by purpledawn, posted 10-24-2009 9:29 PM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by purpledawn, posted 10-25-2009 2:15 PM iano has replied

  
iano
Member (Idle past 2194 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 114 of 161 (532672)
10-25-2009 3:00 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by purpledawn
10-25-2009 2:15 PM


Re: The Law vs. The Law
purpledawn writes:
Remember we're in the science forum and I'm dealing with reality and the simple reading of the text.
Fair enough, I was pointing out what the reality is for a Christian (whether physical Jew or Gentile). They wouldn't consider themselves subject to the Law so it's not surprising they've 'dumped it'. Dumped all of it in fact. My purpose was to counter what I detected to be a slightly disparaging tone behind your stating them to have done this.
quote:
The terrors of law and of God with me can have nothing to do; My Savior's obedience and blood hide all my transgressions from view
August Toplady

-
To discuss the reality of this further, I would need to know which verses of Paul's you are actually looking at. I don't want to guess. I think this type of difference would still be on topic, since the originator doesn't really want to discuss what he provided.
I think our positions are too far apart and we share too little common ground to permit fruitful discussion. Alas.

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