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Author Topic:   A Study of Intelligent Design Debate
nator
Member (Idle past 367 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 181 of 210 (6464)
03-10-2002 9:26 AM
Reply to: Message 172 by Joe Meert
03-08-2002 11:41 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Joe Meert:
JM:What an insanely absurd quote. Sounds like something out of a gaming magazine.

Cheers

Joe Meert


Quite.

Post-modern drivel.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by Joe Meert, posted 03-08-2002 11:41 PM Joe Meert has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by KingPenguin, posted 03-10-2002 11:19 PM nator has not yet responded

  
KingPenguin
Member (Idle past 6080 days)
Posts: 286
From: Freeland, Mi USA
Joined: 02-04-2002


Message 182 of 210 (6499)
03-10-2002 11:19 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by nator
03-10-2002 9:26 AM


shows how willing people are to give in to what others say and not actually do something on their own or come up with their own opinion. we all live as slaves in a sense and its pretty (vulgar word here) pathetic.

------------------
"Overspecialize and you breed in weakness" -"Major" Motoko Kusanagi


This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by nator, posted 03-10-2002 9:26 AM nator has not yet responded

  
LudvanB
Inactive Member


Message 184 of 210 (6519)
03-11-2002 1:35 AM
Reply to: Message 180 by KingPenguin
03-10-2002 12:30 AM


quote:
Originally posted by KingPenguin:
your right but when the apocalypse comes itll be too late to save you.


Excuse me...when what apocalypse comes exactly? I can name you at least 5 that should have occured within the last 100 years so perhaps could you clarify as to what appocalypse we're supposed to get.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by KingPenguin, posted 03-10-2002 12:30 AM KingPenguin has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 187 by KingPenguin, posted 03-11-2002 11:09 PM LudvanB has responded

Peter
Member (Idle past 2120 days)
Posts: 2160
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 185 of 210 (6532)
03-11-2002 7:30 AM
Reply to: Message 178 by KingPenguin
03-09-2002 5:16 PM


quote:
Originally posted by KingPenguin:
you will never get rock solid evidence on anything epescially anything relating to Jesus or the bible.


What does Jesus have to do with creation ?

If the Bible represents truth, then the events contained
within it should have left observable evidence, which
can be found.

It hasn't.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 178 by KingPenguin, posted 03-09-2002 5:16 PM KingPenguin has not yet responded

  
Solid Snake
Inactive Member


Message 186 of 210 (6607)
03-11-2002 4:27 PM


If you think about it the bible is written quite ingeniously. Just about anything can be interpreted from it if you look hard enough. Especially if your trying to make things fit. Thing about the US constitution just about anything can be derrived from it depending on interperetation.

---------------
"You go to Hell, You go to Hell and you die!"~Mr. Garrison


KingPenguin
Member (Idle past 6080 days)
Posts: 286
From: Freeland, Mi USA
Joined: 02-04-2002


Message 187 of 210 (6637)
03-11-2002 11:09 PM
Reply to: Message 184 by LudvanB
03-11-2002 1:35 AM


quote:
Originally posted by LudvanB:
Excuse me...when what apocalypse comes exactly? I can name you at least 5 that should have occured within the last 100 years so perhaps could you clarify as to what appocalypse we're supposed to get.


read the bible plz. the book of revelations explains this.

------------------
"Overspecialize and you breed in weakness" -"Major" Motoko Kusanagi


This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by LudvanB, posted 03-11-2002 1:35 AM LudvanB has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 188 by LudvanB, posted 03-13-2002 2:57 PM KingPenguin has not yet responded

  
LudvanB
Inactive Member


Message 188 of 210 (6751)
03-13-2002 2:57 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by KingPenguin
03-11-2002 11:09 PM


quote:
Originally posted by KingPenguin:
read the bible plz. the book of revelations explains this.


OH i see....you're talking about the christian MYTHOLOGICAL appocalypse...whih,incidently,was supposed to occur in the lifetime of Jesus's disciples...almost 2000 years ago.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by KingPenguin, posted 03-11-2002 11:09 PM KingPenguin has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 189 by TrueCreation, posted 03-13-2002 4:04 PM LudvanB has responded

TrueCreation
Inactive Member


Message 189 of 210 (6753)
03-13-2002 4:04 PM
Reply to: Message 188 by LudvanB
03-13-2002 2:57 PM


"OH i see....you're talking about the christian MYTHOLOGICAL appocalypse...whih,incidently,was supposed to occur in the lifetime of Jesus's disciples...almost 2000 years ago."
--Actually I already showed you how it wasn't.. It seems you are fond of renewing arguments that have had their cages raddled allready.

------------------


This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by LudvanB, posted 03-13-2002 2:57 PM LudvanB has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 190 by LudvanB, posted 03-13-2002 4:28 PM TrueCreation has responded

LudvanB
Inactive Member


Message 190 of 210 (6756)
03-13-2002 4:28 PM
Reply to: Message 189 by TrueCreation
03-13-2002 4:04 PM


quote:
Originally posted by TrueCreation:
"OH i see....you're talking about the christian MYTHOLOGICAL appocalypse...whih,incidently,was supposed to occur in the lifetime of Jesus's disciples...almost 2000 years ago."
--Actually I already showed you how it wasn't.. It seems you are fond of renewing arguments that have had their cages raddled allready.


Actually TC,you have showed that you CHOOSE to believe that this wasen't the case with your personal interpretation of the words of Jesus,an interpretation which i consider fatally flawed,since Jesus was quite clear that he would be returning in their(the actual persons he was talking to) lifetime. You seem to imply that by that he meant "in your and your descendant's lifetime" but the only place where evidence for that interpretation exists is,it would seem,inside your head.

Oh and for the record,TC,you have not shown anything to anyone in all the time i've come here...you have given YOUR opinion on matters of evolution and creation but perhaps you should seek someone to explain to you the difference between FACTS and YOU OPINION on facts.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 189 by TrueCreation, posted 03-13-2002 4:04 PM TrueCreation has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 191 by TrueCreation, posted 03-13-2002 9:20 PM LudvanB has responded

TrueCreation
Inactive Member


Message 191 of 210 (6761)
03-13-2002 9:20 PM
Reply to: Message 190 by LudvanB
03-13-2002 4:28 PM


"Actually TC,you have showed that you CHOOSE to believe that this wasen't the case with your personal interpretation of the words of Jesus,an interpretation which i consider fatally flawed,since Jesus was quite clear that he would be returning in their(the actual persons he was talking to) lifetime. You seem to imply that by that he meant "in your and your descendant's lifetime" but the only place where evidence for that interpretation exists is,it would seem,inside your head."
--I guess that when it comes to this, were going to have different views arent we? Meaning that such context is interperetable in this degree (in my opinion, as you have stated, you seem to be pulling it to an extreme), so it is not a valid argument either way is it and should therefor be irrelevant?

"Oh and for the record,TC,you have not shown anything to anyone in all the time i've come here...you have given YOUR opinion on matters of evolution and creation but perhaps you should seek someone to explain to you the difference between FACTS and YOU OPINION on facts."
--Would you seriously like me to go through your posts since you have come here and quote yoruself in which I have either showed you to be incorrect, missunderstanded, ill-informed, and flawed? You made this statement earlier and I responded with this same thing, I actually had a pile of links at least 48 I believe in which your view was shown to be incorrect, though at the time my temp folder was cleared so when you refreshed it was gone. I am quite sure you would not like me to so, I have been considerably informative in these forums, I am quite sure many could agree on this.

------------------


This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by LudvanB, posted 03-13-2002 4:28 PM LudvanB has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 192 by KingPenguin, posted 03-13-2002 10:49 PM TrueCreation has not yet responded
 Message 193 by LudvanB, posted 03-14-2002 2:54 AM TrueCreation has not yet responded
 Message 195 by Peter, posted 03-14-2002 7:47 AM TrueCreation has not yet responded

KingPenguin
Member (Idle past 6080 days)
Posts: 286
From: Freeland, Mi USA
Joined: 02-04-2002


Message 192 of 210 (6772)
03-13-2002 10:49 PM
Reply to: Message 191 by TrueCreation
03-13-2002 9:20 PM


i would and i dont see how his opinions are any different from assumptions made by scientists.

------------------
"Overspecialize and you breed in weakness" -"Major" Motoko Kusanagi


This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by TrueCreation, posted 03-13-2002 9:20 PM TrueCreation has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 194 by LudvanB, posted 03-14-2002 3:13 AM KingPenguin has not yet responded

  
LudvanB
Inactive Member


Message 193 of 210 (6784)
03-14-2002 2:54 AM
Reply to: Message 191 by TrueCreation
03-13-2002 9:20 PM


quote:
Originally posted by TrueCreation:
"Actually TC,you have showed that you CHOOSE to believe that this wasen't the case with your personal interpretation of the words of Jesus,an interpretation which i consider fatally flawed,since Jesus was quite clear that he would be returning in their(the actual persons he was talking to) lifetime. You seem to imply that by that he meant "in your and your descendant's lifetime" but the only place where evidence for that interpretation exists is,it would seem,inside your head."
--I guess that when it comes to this, were going to have different views arent we? Meaning that such context is interperetable in this degree (in my opinion, as you have stated, you seem to be pulling it to an extreme), so it is not a valid argument either way is it and should therefor be irrelevant?

LUD:i am pulling nothing to an extreme. I interpret Jesus words for what they are,not for what I may want them to be personally...which is the crux of my problem with creationist...their interpretations always depends on what they want,not on what is. Evolutionists,despite wild claims to the contrary,do not want to disprove God...that doesn't even enter in the equation as far as they are concerned. The universe exists and evidence points to it having been evolving for quite some time now. Weather it began as an act of God is irrelevent to the question of evolution.

"Oh and for the record,TC,you have not shown anything to anyone in all the time i've come here...you have given YOUR opinion on matters of evolution and creation but perhaps you should seek someone to explain to you the difference between FACTS and YOU OPINION on facts."
--Would you seriously like me to go through your posts since you have come here and quote yoruself in which I have either showed you to be incorrect, missunderstanded, ill-informed, and flawed? You made this statement earlier and I responded with this same thing, I actually had a pile of links at least 48 I believe in which your view was shown to be incorrect, though at the time my temp folder was cleared so when you refreshed it was gone. I am quite sure you would not like me to so, I have been considerably informative in these forums, I am quite sure many could agree on this.

LUD:you can indicate whatever post i made you feel you didn't understand properly and i'll be happy to explain them to you. Also,i never said that you do not provide information...i said that you provide information and then give an opinion on it which i or other on this board dont share most of the time so the only thing that you have SHOWN is your opinion on the facts you present...like the exemple at hand for instance. If i tell you that i will do this and that in your lifetime,will you take this to mean that i'll accomplish whatever i said before YOU die of before your DESCENDENTS disapear from the face of the earth. If Jesus had said these things to you,can you honnestly say that you would have understood he meant in the lifetime of the human race as opposed to your own lifetime?



This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by TrueCreation, posted 03-13-2002 9:20 PM TrueCreation has not yet responded

LudvanB
Inactive Member


Message 194 of 210 (6785)
03-14-2002 3:13 AM
Reply to: Message 192 by KingPenguin
03-13-2002 10:49 PM


quote:
Originally posted by KingPenguin:
i would and i dont see how his opinions are any different from assumptions made by scientists.


I'm not saying that it is...i'm saying that using the terminology "i have allready shown you this or that..." implies that he has somehow PROVEN his point and that i was simply being obstinate on beating a dead horse,which is completely and utterly FASLE. My point is every bit as valid as his or yours in this matter because it is greatly a matter of broad interpretation...but his(and your) interpretation is largly affected by what you WANT as opposed to what IS. You both WANT for the Bible to be true and for Jesus,God,Noah,ect to have existed in the form described in it whereas i dont really care either way...if the Bible is true,than its true and if its not,well its not but i have faith that if God exists,IT's a just God that does not require me to believe in such a narrow interpretation of its nature that is simply not supported by the evidence we gather...IN MY OPINION...i have faith that God does not fault me for my curiosity,my occasional skepticism and my NEED to understand the intricate workings of the universe and most importantly,i have faith that if there is such a place as hell,i've lived a good enough life that i wont be sent there once i croak simply because i was not presented with enough evidence in this life to believe in your or TC's literal interpretation of the Bible. Jesus said,the way to God is through me...and since the way of Jesus is to love your neighbor as you love yourself,i've allready found the way to God.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 192 by KingPenguin, posted 03-13-2002 10:49 PM KingPenguin has not yet responded

Peter
Member (Idle past 2120 days)
Posts: 2160
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 195 of 210 (6799)
03-14-2002 7:47 AM
Reply to: Message 191 by TrueCreation
03-13-2002 9:20 PM


quote:
Originally posted by TrueCreation:

--I guess that when it comes to this, were going to have different views arent we? Meaning that such context is interperetable in this degree (in my opinion, as you have stated, you seem to be pulling it to an extreme), so it is not a valid argument either way is it and should therefor be irrelevant?

This attitude is common across the whole of this forum, and
it's not stopped any of us yet

Question though, if you interpret sections of the bible differently
to other people, how is it that you can assume (maybe you don't
but some christian fundamentalists do) that ALL of the translators
of the bible interpreted it in exactly the same way ?

That SOME of them may have been touched by God is not really
worth going into since we wil just disagree, but if there is
evidence that not evryone inteprets the bible in the same way,
and that we can assume that some translators of the bible did
so for other than noble intent (King James bible as an example)
then how can the bible be claimed as inerrant ?

TC has said that different people interpret it differently.

This is an inherent problem with ALL understanding of texts,
nto just the bible. Each 'interpreter' brings their own context,
history, etc. to the interpretive act. Look at how much
disagreement there is on the 'meaning' that can be inferred
from the fossil record!!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by TrueCreation, posted 03-13-2002 9:20 PM TrueCreation has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 198 by doctrbill, posted 03-16-2002 10:14 AM Peter has not yet responded

  
Peter
Member (Idle past 2120 days)
Posts: 2160
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 196 of 210 (6812)
03-14-2002 10:45 AM


This forum is about intelligent design.

What (apart from Dembski's filter .. which is viewed as
suspect by many who have looked at it, and which Dembski
himself has not suggested can cast light on the debate)
in an OBJECT is an indicator of intelligent design ?

If I find a watch in a field I assume it was made by someone.
Not due to anything inherent in the watch, but because I know
about watches, and in my experience all watches I have known
were designed and manufactured.

If I land an aircraft in a previously unvisited part of the
world, and introduce this technological marvel to the incredulous
natives, they are likely, at first (as has happened in the past)
to think of it as some great, silver creature of the air (assuming
sufficient lack of sophistication in the culture).

This opinion is only changed once they have been TAUGHT the
origins of the thing.

Without prior knowledge of watches and of technologies for the
manufacture of them, is there anything that would indicate
design ?

You will note (I hope) that this question is NOT about whether
or not there is a creator ... the answer to the above question
could lead to both outcomes::

1) When applied to life, we just don't know the design technologies yet.

2) We cannot detect any design, because there is none.

NOTE:: I do not ascribe the origin of life to CHANCE, but to
naturalistic processes. This is NOT the same thing. Chance
implies one-off out of the ordinary origin. Natural processes,
once understood can be replicated.


  
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