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Author | Topic: Does Death Pose Challenge To Abiogenesis | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Coragyps Member (Idle past 26 days) Posts: 5548 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
So you didn't really mean it when you wrote "but without a spirit and soul it won't have life." I see.
Does an E. coli bacterium have a spirit? "The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD
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Cedre Member (Idle past 283 days) Posts: 350 From: Russia Joined: |
I already explained this in one of my previous posts, human beings can survive even with a dead brain and that's what we see in victims of brain death.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 7051 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: |
Your link is no good.
Read here for an explanation of this experiment that was done in 1907. Plenty has been made of this because of a movie 21 Grams that came out a few years ago. quote:Source quote:Source And from the British Journal of Sports Medicine quote: Hardly any proof for the existence of a soul. This is what confounds me about fundies and creationists. They excoriate science and the scientific method ever day, but cling to any semblance of science to justify their beliefs. I thought the 'soul' was an immaterial entity. If the 'soul' had weight than it must have other physical properties too. Why couldn't he see it or feel it? Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given. Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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Theodoric Member Posts: 7051 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: |
How about a dead heart? Are you saying the soul is in the heart not in the brain?
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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Cedre Member (Idle past 283 days) Posts: 350 From: Russia Joined: |
I wasn't so clear but when I said soul I specifically was referring to human beings not other organisms.
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Cedre Member (Idle past 283 days) Posts: 350 From: Russia Joined: |
all this criticisms are unfounded such as poor scales being used in these experiments, and the rest have been answered MacDougall himself.
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Huntard Member (Idle past 1088 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: |
A human with a non functioning brain is alive? Evidence please. The fact we can restart it a few minutes after death does not mean there's a spirit there. I hunt for the truth I am the one Orgasmatron, the outstretched grasping hand
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Cedre Member (Idle past 283 days) Posts: 350 From: Russia Joined: |
No. What I'm saying is despite the presence of all the necessary parts for life dead organisms like human beings remain dead, despite all the components being there that are needed for life.
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Cedre Member (Idle past 283 days) Posts: 350 From: Russia Joined: |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_death, http://www.merck.com/mmpe/sec16/ch212/ch212d.html.
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Huntard Member (Idle past 1088 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: |
And for the second (or third) time, they don't. They lack a functioning brain, for example.
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Drosophilla Member (Idle past 2434 days) Posts: 172 From: Doncaster, yorkshire, UK Joined: |
Your argument is puerile junk I'm afraid Cedre:
Junk? Well:
You can start a car, put it in gear, wedge a bit of wood on the accelerator and bingo the car will move...with no driver....and displays 'speed'. So your argument is junk. Puerile? Well the whole point of the analogy was to show you that if you build something out of a list of components, and as a consequence of that build, the object displays a property (speed) in this case, that was not in the component list....then you have demonstrated an emergent property. It is utterly irrelevant whether there is a driver, a block of wedged wood or a gorilla at the helm - the 'speed' is only possible because of the special arrangement of the initial component build. You seem really confused re life processes in this regard so let's build further and look at the car/ biological life comparison. An analogy is simply used to compare something which may be difficult to understand (life/spirit/soul) to something more familiar (car/speed). No analogy is perfect and differences and similarities are always apparent with an analogy. Here the similarities are: Both have material building block components, organic molecules for life, metal etc for car (some of the car's components are also organic - oil, cloth for seats, plastic). Both need fuel - life needs organic compounds such as sugars, cars need petrol/diesel. Both uses the oxygen in the air to burn the fuel to provide energy that then does useful work (moves the car or allows bodies to function). Even the ultimate source of energy for both is the same - our sun provides the energy of both the petrol/oil (from fossil fuels) and the food animals eat. Differences in the analogy: animals can self-repair (to a limited amount, cars obviously can't - one up to animals! Let's design a car more like an animal in this last respect: The metal sodium is explosive in contact with air. It is kept in oil to protect it from the oxygen atmosphere when stored as the metal. Although sodium is too soft to be as useful metal in building cars, let’s just pretend that we have, in fact built such a car. One problem would be that we would need to have a pump going that continuously sprayed a film of protective oil over the expose sodium surfaces of the car. The oil would wear off in a short time, and so this pump would have to be continuous. In such a car, if it ran out of fuel and broke down, the power supplying the pump would cease and the oil film would stop. Then oxygen would get to the sodium surfaces, react explosively and the car would never work again - not even when fuel is put back in...Because the structure of the car is now no longer able to perform its function - lack of energy to maintain it has resulted in deformation of the material structure to the point of organisational collapse of the components. This is now more comparable to our life analogy - though life is even more critical in the time before degradation to start. Our energy comes from 'burning' oxygen and organic fuel (sugars)and a mere 4 minutes without oxygen starts causing brain damage as the brain cells begin dying - the corresponding analogy to the sodium engine of the car starting to 'burn' as the oil film protector starts failing. It's a sobering thought - but your emergent 'soul' has no more protection against a failure of energy supply, than a car described above would have against its loss of speed when its engine rusts away.
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Cedre Member (Idle past 283 days) Posts: 350 From: Russia Joined: |
You needed a driver to start the car, you can't escape the driver so my argument isn't junk.
No you need a driver to start the car.
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Huntard Member (Idle past 1088 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: |
From the very first line of the article:
So no a person with a non functioning brain, is not alive. I hunt for the truth I am the one Orgasmatron, the outstretched grasping hand
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Cedre Member (Idle past 283 days) Posts: 350 From: Russia Joined: |
I'm sorry, firstly the person is alive and is placed on life support if he/she were dead he/she would have been placed in a morgue somewhere. Secondly its the legal definition the individual still has bodily function.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 7051 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: |
Please explain why criticisms are unfounded. I mean other than you said so.
1) only 6 subjects McDougall's later conclusion just show he was trying to mnake the results fit. quote: How about backing things up instead of justing making unjustified comments. Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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