Is ID a right wing conspiracy?

I don't think that ID is a right wing conspiracy. I have also never understood why there is a debate between ID and evolution or ID and the Big Bang. It seems to me that ID is 100% compatible with either of these two theories. You could debate whether the Big Bang or Evolution best describe how the universe and life as we know it have come to be. However, the outcome of this debate has nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not there is an Intelligent Designer behind it all.It is entirely possible that an Intelligent Designer set the whole process of evolution in motion. It is also entirely possible that an Intelligent Designer started the Big Bang and the universe has evolved and changed "by design". It does not seem to me that Science addresses this question at all. There is absolutely nothing in Science that is incompatible with the notion of Intelligent Design. I do not understand what the "debate" is all about.

I still don't think that the real debate is about ID vs. Evolution. Instead, many of those opposed to teaching evolution in schools try to frame it that way. Doing so gives them an entree for implementing their real agenda which is to teach versions of "how things came to be" that correspond with their reading of text from Genesis. The truth is that Evolution and the Big Bang Theory are not at all incompatible with the notion of an intelligent designer.I personally wouldn't have a problem if someone teaching a course on Evolution made opening remarks that some people believe that Evolution came about through intelligent design while others do not. However, that is not what this debate is all about.

Hi Chiroptera,Perhaps, but looking at this from the standpoint of "pure reason", the notion that human beings were created in one day vs. the notion that they were created through evolution over two billion years both seem equally improbable to me. However, scientific evidence clearly favors the latter until new evidence surfaces to the contrary. Either "theory" is equally compatible with the belief that there is an intelligent designer or that there is no intelligent designer.

Your statement that "there IS a real debate between those who support ID and scientists" suggests that these two groups are mutually exclusive. As I am sure you are aware, there are great scientists who have made major contributions in fields such as Cosmology and Evolution who believe in an ID. The work and findings of many of these folks are incompatible with a strict reading of Genesis that implies that the Earth and man were created 5,600 odd years ago over a period of 7 days. Those folks are not opponents of Science or Evolution in spite of their belief in ID.I don’t think that a belief in God is invalid because it isn’t Science anymore than suggestions that someone’s appreciation of Mozart’s music is invalid for the same reason. A belief in an ID may not be fodder for Science, but the two certainly are not incompatible. I believe that if proponents of Evolution underscored this point more often, they would be more successful in their battle over whether or not Creationism is taught in the classroom.I doubt that Creationists object to Evolution because it is incompatible with the notion of an ID per se. These ideas are not incompatible even if they are not both Science. The real problem for many Creationists is that Evolution does not jive with their "literal" reading of the Bible. They probably also realize that arguments for teaching ID as Science won’t sell as well in the public forum if they are based solely on so-called discrepancies or inconsistencies between Evolution Theory and Genesis. Better to frame this discussion as one of ID or God vs. Evolution in a way that suggests these concepts are mutually exclusive. Those who frame the discussion in this way should not be allowed to get away with this unchallenged.This message has been edited by sleikind, 08-04-2005 05:43 PMThis message has been edited by sleikind, 08-04-2005 05:49 PMThis message has been edited by sleikind, 08-04-2005 06:03 PM

My point has been to try to distinguish those who believe in God or Intelligent design, but accept Science from those who want to pass on a sanitized version of Genesis as Science. Many of the latter do this by framing the discussion in a way that suggests that Evolution, the Big Bang Theory, and other scientific theories are incompatible with God or Intelligent design. Many Science advocates fall into a trap when they respond that ID isn't Science (true), but the discussion ends up sounding like a debate in which God and Science are mutually exclusive. Discussions like this often do not serve the interests of Science well from a PR standpoint. It would be better to emphasize that theories such as evolution are not incompatible with the notion of an ID even if the latter isn't Science.

It may be true that certain evolutionists attempt to use evolution as an argument against the existence of God. However, they are a signficant minority. My sense is that the vast majority of evolutionists realize that Evolution has no bearing on this question whatsoever. Faith in God is not incompatible or inconsistent with acceptance of the theory of Evolution.This message has been edited by sleikind, 08-04-2005 11:21 PMThis message has been edited by sleikind, 08-05-2005 06:28 AM