Did Jesus Really Suffer?

The way Christians find the answer to this question is by looking at what the Bible says about Jesus. And the Bible clearly says that Jesus is God:John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.15 John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.'16 From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another. 17For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.Because Jesus is God, then His substitutionary atonement for mankind's sins provides salvation to all who believe that He is God. Death without resurrection is not a suitable sacrifice. Death without resurrection can be achieved by humans too. Resurrection proves Jesus' deity! Would you want God to "die" for your sins or would you rather a human die? Which one would be "true atonement"? Jesus was fully man and fully God. Meaning that while He had the power to become alive after death, He did receive excruciating pain, loss, suffering and trauma through His death on the cross. Any human can never bear the pain Christ bore because Christ bore the full cup of God's wrath (meaning the punishment for EVERY SINGLE SIN that all saved believers past, present, and future have/are/and will commit--all in one death, and on one man: Christ.)There is more than a physical aspect to Christ's death, in fact the physical pain is absolutely zilch compared to His separation from God--when God the Father looked at Him as a sinner. Jesus didn't even have to suffer one second for your sin. True love hates. God hates sin=God hates JUC. At the same time, God loves JUC enough to give him/her a chance. God cannot totally love and totally judge and claim to be just. He loves= He sends Christ to die in your place. He judges= He prepares Hell for those who reject Christ. That Christ should live in hell and bear our punishment there was not God's plan because Christ didn't even have to suffer for your sin in the first place. He loves you, but He is also the great Judge of the universe. (and when I say He, I refer to Jesus Christ). The Bible says that Jesus will judge every single person according to their deeds. How can He be in hell and do that? Heb 9:11 When Christ came as high priest of the good things that are already here,[b] he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not man-made, that is to say, not a part of this creation. 12He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption. 13The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean. 14How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death,[c] so that we may serve the living God!15For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritancenow that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.16In the case of a will,[d] it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, 17because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. 18This is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood. 19When Moses had proclaimed every commandment of the law to all the people, he took the blood of calves, together with water, scarlet wool and branches of hyssop, and sprinkled the scroll and all the people. 20He said, "This is the blood of the covenant, which God has commanded you to keep."[e] 21In the same way, he sprinkled with the blood both the tabernacle and everything used in its ceremonies. 22In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.A very clear explanation why righteous blood needs to be shed for atonement of sin: God says so in His law. And His law was established even before you or I were born.And on a side note, Jesus did not commit suicide. Jesus willingly obeyed God the Father's decree that He must die:Luke 22:39-46[39] Jesus went out as usual to the Mount of Olives, and his disciples followed him. [40] On reaching the place, he said to them, "Pray that you will not fall into temptation." [41] He withdrew about a stone's throw beyond them, knelt down and prayed, [42] "Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done." [43] An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him. [44] And being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground. So you infer with the twisted understanding characteristic of your little mind. However, please note that the Bible says God is the most supreme, sovereign, and mighty being.And if you would rather die for your own sins, then , by all means, try it out and let us know what its like to do such a thing. (I'm really interested). {and of course, I make this statement assuming that JUC can resurrect.} Because Jesus is God (and we know this from the Bible, not from some random Dr.Sing), His vicarious atonement for sin pays the price the God that Father has set in time immemorial and all who admit that Christ died for their personal sin, receive redemption from judgement.I will also say this. On the contrary, if one does not regard Christ as God, and does not acknowledge the need for shedding of blood to cover sin, and does not believe in a literal heaven and hell, Christ's suffering, indeed, is meaningless to him/her. Logical. Dr. Sing sins, Dr. Sing pays for it.
Bible. Dr. Sing sins. God will not accept Dr. Sing's payment because Dr. Sing's payment doesn't measure upto God's demand. Because God is love, He send His Son (who is also God) to pay for Dr. Sing's sin. All of Dr. Sing's past, present and future sin has now been attributed to Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ sheds His blood on the cross in repentance of DR.SING'S sin, and now when God looks at Dr. Sing's record, He is actually looking at Jesus's Christ record (because Dr. Sing acknowledges and accepts Christ as her God). Welcome to God's love, law and judgment.Hebrews 9:22 (New International Version)22In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.Edited by Dr. Sing, : No reason given.

Because God’s just nature requires that punishment be given to the guilty, a price be paid for sin. God is just. If He forgave people anyway, would that not be injustice? If you were a judge and a murderer was brought before you, would you convict him guilty and punish him, or would you let him go free? Which action would prove you to be a judge-an arbiter of justice, an upholder of law? So that idiots would have no chance to disprove His deity. His resurrection was not aimed at proving His deity even though it serves that purpose very well. His resurrection and ascension into heaven demonstrates that those who die to sin and live in Christ, will one day rise and live with God in heaven. And for the record, Jesus wasn’t helping. The fate of the universe is in His hands!!!!!! He was having mercy on wretches like you and me. Wow!!!! how come I never of you before! Man! I’m glad to meet you! You were the one who crucified my Lord! Not only crucified, but measured his pain, and the pain of all people who’ve ever been crucified. Pleased to meet you. Thank you for helping fulfill God’s plan. As a believer, I glory in Jesus’s death on the cross. Jesus’s death is no sad thing to mourn over. It the ultimate demonstration of true love and the door to heaven which otherwise, would forever be closed. Yes, isn’t that amazing! God directed the wrath that you deserve, at Himself!!!! Because He knows that TU can never bear that wrath. He needed someone holy, as holy as himself to pay for you sins. Invoking your T-Shirt illustration here, TU doesn’t have enough money to ever buy that T-Shirt from God. But God wants TU to have the T-Shirt even though TU doesn’t deserve it. So what does God do? HE pays the price and gives TU the T-Shirt. Isn’t that amazing!! Talk about unselfish grace. And buddy, please do some research before starting discussions. When I said Jesus was separated, I mean, from God. Do you anything about Trinity?? If not, this will probably not make sense. Anywho, you don’t need to understand trinity to have faith in Jesus. No. Because that would violate His rules. You say, why do we need rules? Why not just have mercy because we’re dealing with billions of innocent people? Son, He DID have mercy!! Christ’s dying on the cross is mercy! His offering the gift of salvation to you is mercy! No, He will not extend that mercy to entire mankind because then, He would become an unjust God if He did. You don’t realize that mankind has sinned against God, do you??? If you did, you would understand the concepts of sin, guilt, judgment, mercy, propitiation, redemption, imputation, and so on.
Seems to me, (and please don’t take offense), that you have molded God (the concept) to fit your expectations! (agree with me or not, it is highly evident in your posts) You want him to be a puppet in your hands: to not have a nature of His own, to be like men, to do what appears good on the outside. Let me tell you, that’s exactly the wrong way to approach the God of the Bible. Ah, way to twist the meaning of words! (or to misunderstand) Think about it this way, Jesus doesn’t have to pay for your T-Shirt its you who need it, therefore you must pay for it. But, Jesus payed for your T-Shirt because He knows ****you don’t have enough money**** (****and you will never have enough****). Similarly, Jesus suffered all the pain that sinful men deserve, when in fact, He didn’t need to! Thank you for putting out your misconceptions and helping me clear them up. TU retorts: Alright.
1 God loves people. But God hates sin and punishes sinners.
2 Dr.Sing is a creation of God’s. God loves Dr. Sing. But Dr. Sing is a sinner. God hates Dr. Sing’s sin and should punish Dr. Sing. (The punishment is —eternal life in hell).
You tell me, how can God to justice to Dr. Sing? Propose a prospective method by which to keep God’s integrity and save Dr. Sing because God loves Dr. Sing. Definition of Justice
One, He does extend eternal life to all. It is WE who reject Him.
Two, why should He not punish those who reject Him? He offers heaven to people who originally deserve hell, some people reject heaven, therefore, they get hell. Fair? Indeed. It is more likely that a sword from the Atlantic ocean came and sawed me in half than for me to have proven your point, son. Far from it. Anyway, I already cleared up your what words of mine you misconstrued. Refer to an earlier quote. Christ experienced everyone’s pain so that they could go to heaven. Just not in the way you propse/expect/hope/wish/like/fancy/makeup farcical expectations/waste people’s time etc. Oh, I see the real reason you made this thread, bud. I’m glad I’m getting to tell you the truth. You tell me, is Jesus God? What have you done with the very first few verses I quoted from the bible? I know you didn’t think about them, but I’m curious to know what exactly you plan to do with EVERY SINGLE SUPPORT I give for my arguments. I’m sorry for those who don’t regard the Bible as truth. Since the Bible is EVERYTHING I depend upon in my faith, I’m sorry that I cannot argue with you if you are so closed-minded and mannerless enough to put bars on my freedom. One could prove to you that Jesus is God and make sense out of all the mess you’ve created using the Bible and only the Bible. Whether you are willing to listen or not is your choice. Heb 9:22 From this I understand two very pertinent points about where you’re coming from:
1. You do not believe in the concept of sin (neither are you willing to look at yourself as a sinner) ---no wonder you’re having a rough time getting my points!
2. You absolutely do not understand the concepts of justice, propitiaton, and imputation.(since all of these are based on the concepts of sin)
And, you see, you yourself are not willing to die for your own sins. Christ dies for them. And you still do not realize the magnitude of mercy there?! Really?! Excuse me, I never said that Jesus did not die for our sins. Jesus died for our sins. What on the planet are you misconstruing my words for?!I’m getting sick and tired of answering the same question again and again. Have you checked your IQ recently?God requires a price to be paid for sin because He hates sin. Sin is disobedience again God, not even against law/order/conscience/ or anything! And God pays the price Himself because only He can. Let me ask you, have you ever read the Old Testament? Or any part of the Bible? There is need for sacrifice because there is a GREAT need for you to THINK. Again. Heb 9:22. Without shedding of blood (sacrifice), there is NO REMISSION (no forgiveness) for SIN. Get it, kid?And who is Peg?-------
Hebrews 9:22 (New International Version)
22In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.Why does God require that price when he could just forgive the sin?I’m sorry. God doesn’t just forgive sin because if He did that would make Him a liar. That would be like a judge letting a murderer go free even after the murderer took the lives of innocent people. Are you presenting that Christ's sacrifice was unwarranted? Ah, a few words that actually are coherent at last. Thank you.
In your illustration, does Doc Sing leave the store without buying the T-Shirt from God with God’s money? Alright, nice to meet you TU- future monarch of planet earth. Let me urge you to learn a concept called, cognition. It might help when ruling over us all. Thanks!A few things, do you believe in a literal heaven and hell? and have you read any other Scriptures like the gita, or Quran? Edited by Dr. Sing, : added wordsEdited by Dr. Sing, : No reason given.Edited by Dr. Sing, : No reason given.

Apologies. I had earlier responded to one of your threads, hence the confusion. Sorry 'bout it. You bet Christ is in heaven! Right where He deserves to be, as God, ruler of the universe from time immemorial! Judas intention was never to "pay for your sins". Furthermore, you do not understand the need for HOLY (and by holy, I do not mean pious) blood to be shed for forgiveness of sin. You somehow think that Christ should suffer lifelong in hell. If this was the case, I would immediately stop believing in Christ. Christ's death, resurrection, and ascension to heaven,serves as an example of how when I die, I will be resurrected, and ascend into heaven (because I believe Jesus is my personal Savious and God). Seems to me that you would prefer to live in hell than in heaven..hence your farcical belief in Judas's death. Both Jesus and Judas died, but only one rose again. Both live eternally (because Judas was created in God's image). Both live in different places: heaven and hell respectively. The death of both conveys a message. Jesus conveys a message of love and "life". Judas', disobedience and "Death". I don't see how Judas' message is attractive to you at all. Salvation is not just about propitiation. This is where you are right now, you just think about propitiation and end the matter there. Not so at all. What about sin, imputation, resurrection, eternal life and death? How does Judas' death relate to all these doctrines?Can you answer this question, how would Judas's death allow YOU to gain access to heaven? Then I'll show you how Christ's death gives me (and any believer) access to heaven. Edited by Dr. Sing, : more words

Maybe so. How true is 1 Cor 2:14 "The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned." Precisely so! Isn't it amazing how God can make someone who is against Him to contribute to fulfill God's own plan. All the characters, elements, and entities that contributed to Christ's death, right from the smallest thorn in His brow to the mighty governor Pilate's command to execute Him, were all installed, controlled and orchestrated by God himself to fulfill His plan. And do you know have any idea what his plan was? It was to save you from hell! Read the Bible. A Father that loves His creatures as much as He loves His own Son. You do not understand Trinity, hence your misconceptions about God the Father's plan to make Jesus pay for the world's sin and Jesus' willing submission to God's decree.T&U creates a lot of farcical ideas. Tomorrow, he probably will point out (based on his own interpretations) that the earth revolves around the moon, that spiders are made of butter, computers eat cheeseburgers and that the best way to build a house is to spend 50 days slapping your face left and right. Will you agree with him/her? Why not agree with what the Bible says? Ohhh, what the Bible says is more ludicrous than what TU says, right? Edited by Dr. Sing, : No reason given.Edited by Dr. Sing, : No reason given.

First tell me this, Do you believe that human beings have an eternal soul?I know exactly where you going to take this mini-debate about Judas/Pilate-God using them in His plan-but they ending up in hell-what kind of a cruel God does that/ this clearly proves that you God is not a God of love but of subtle wickedness/ etc etc... and I am more than willing to tackle your queries (provided they are within reason). However, you must do some homework or else I fear my answers might produce more and more meaningless questions because of a lack of your knowledge about the Biblical concept of sin. May I suggest a starting point?for now, I just want to tell you as succinctly as possible: Sin is separation from God. Man sins= Man is separated from God. The agent of sin is the devil. Therefore, when man sins, man seeks to please the devil. God hates sin. I cannot even begin to stress how important it is for a person who's searching for the truth to know the CORRECT definition of sin. Edited by Dr. Sing, : No reason given.

Here's where you lack in your understanding of Trinity. There are three persons in the Trinity. Yet, the three persons are of the same essence. Think about it this way: Water, Ice, and Water vapor are three different arrangements of the same basic molecule: H20. Agree? Simlilarly, God the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all "God". But, there is hierarchy within Godhead. Jesus submits to the Father's authority. And all three persons have different jobs. All three persons have all attributes of God, in other words, none is less divine than the other just because they are hierarchically subordinate to another (except, God the father--He is not subordinate to anyone). Here's an illustration: Jack is the father of Sam. Sam's best friend is Joe. Joe needs surgery because he has heart disease. If he doesn't have surgery, he is surely going to die within a week. Joe is a very poor kid. His parents cannot afford the expensive surgery. Joe has no way to live unless he has surgery. On the contrary, Jack is a rich guy. He's given Sam lots of money to spend for himself. Jack and Sam both want to save Joe's life. Jack could pay the money himself, but wants to show Joe how much Sam loves him. So Jack asks Sam if he will give all the money he has towards Joe's surgery. Sam agrees to give all the money he has to save his friend Joe's life becasue he loves Joe. Now, imagine. scenario 1: Jack and Sam go to the hospital and offer Joe the money. Joe accepts it. Surgery's done. Joe lives. He gets invited to spend the rest of his life in Jack's heavenly mansion. And Sam and he can always be together. Scenario 2: Joe rejects the money saying he's no poor kid, he doesn't need the mercy of some big guy. Days later, Joe dies. Jack and Sam feel very sad for poor Joe.Jack represents God, Sam-Jesus, and Joe-Men. Now tell me, did it not cost Jesus his life to repay for your sins? Net balance is not 0. The price that God set for sin was holy blood. Jesus gave his holy blood on the cross IN EVERY BELIEVING SINNER'S place. His blood covered infinite sins!All people are sinners. I need not prove it. Look around you. Do you see no lying, rape, murder, theft, violence, abuse, poverty, harassment, malice? Either you are blind or your have just landed on earth a nanosecond ago. If you have lived on this earth for even 15 minutes, you would say "wow, the people here are bad!" In God's sight, there is no big or small sin. By definition, sin is "disobedience against God". It (the Bible) doesn't say this many times, or only in this continent, or only for men, or its okay if you sin once and never sin again in your life (ha, you get a freebie), nope! Sin is sin, one sin or infinite sins: either one eternally separates a sinner from God. So holy is the God of the Bible that He will not tolerate even a single sin (that is not washed by the blood of Christ) Talk about integrity!How would you like a god to be okay with sin, even a single sin (you would think he's merciful, right?). If all people who have ever lived, are living, and will live sin only once in their life...how many sins will that add up to. Will god (who we imagine to be just and holy by nature) tolerate that much sin? If he would, would it be wrong to say he's a fake and impotent god who doesn't agree with his own attributes. No. If he forgave all these sins freely (better yet, we can say just overlooked them), what about justice? Moreover, people sin 24/7. How do you handle that without marring your love and justice at the same time? .....ask the God of the Bible. Christ makes it crystal clear in the Bible, that He is God. Problem is, you choose not to believe in His words. You would rather a ethereal being appear in your dream and tell you that He's God. Right? Sorry, I think that would be cool, but the Bible says that men are too sinful to see God in all His glory. You say, "well, then, how did men see Jesus if He was God?"...they did, because he was God in the cape of a "man". If you don't get anything out of this post, please get this one thing: God can never bear/tolerate/associate with sin. Ever. This proves His holiness. I know its easy to take personal offense in that comment. However, my intention is far different here. I just want you to understand that all sins are equal. If you steal a pencil and I murder my aunt, we both are sinners in God's sight. We both deserve the same punishment. Sinners don't come in shapes, sizes and colours. Its hard to understand this idea if you have you the notion that one sin is more "sinful" than another or less. However, Jesus BORE GOD'S WRATH ALONG WITH physical suffering that entails every incident of crucifixtion. Do you see that there are two dimensions to this picture? A spiritual (the more pertinent one) and the physical. Jesus was separaed from His Father...he cried, he sweat, he bled, his muscles and tendons were torn, his bones broken, his organs all paralyzed, in that moment, his words were "forgive, them". Sacificelook it up. The definition of sacrifice entails the idea of losing something valuable to ATTAIN A HIGHER PURPOSE. I do not mourn because 1. the purpose of Jesus' sacrifice was my salvation. 2. My Jesus rose again defying death itself! However, I do feel sorry for Jesus' physical pain on the cross and wish I was there to serve him then... He makes it very clear to people who are willing to acknowledge that they are sinners and need salvation, that He is God. Crystal clear. As clear as a message in the sky. There's no chance of missing Him if you are truly looking for Him, that much I can assure you. However, atheists and agnostics lessen their chances of "recognizing" him by "turning their faces away from Him". For which, Christ is no more responsible if they land in hell. Do you see the starting point? It all begins when one acknowledges their need for a Saviour, until then, I'm sorry but its really does not make sense to anyone why all this drama happens... I can see why Jesus spoke in parables in His day. My new best friend is analogies. Here's how it works (according to the Bible AND simplified):Heaven--grand place of God's residence
God the Father--owner of Heaven
Jesus- God's Son (also God) ***Remember, God is the "essence" of what all three members are made of, therefore it is okay to say God is God and Jesus is God --its not a logical contradiction---water is made up of molecules of H2O, ice also is made of H20, its okay that both water and ice are made of H20***
One cannot enter heaven unless he is absolutely sinless.
God gives Jesus authority to allow His friends to enter heaven and life in God's house.
****Criterion to be Jesus' friend :accept Jesus' divinty and personalize His atonement and get your sins forgiven (when a friend on earth dies, Jesus tells God that Jesus paid for all sins the man committed (remember absolutely sinless?) and so God allows friend into heaven)****
Jesus invites people--people who accept the invite are now His friends and they go to heaven, people who reject the invite don't."heaven would be closed" would mean "Jesus wouldn't invite any one into heaven." and because no one is sinless no one would enter heaven. You got it wrong. He needs to direct His wrath at you and me. However, Jesus says that He is willing to bear it on your and my behalf. and no, He can't choose not to. Heb 9:22 is your verse to read. (again) God the Father looked at all the infinite sins on Jesus' face. Every murder, theft, lie, profane word, all the times people said I hate God!, the weight of EVERY SINGLE SIN was now accounted to Jesus even though He didn't commit one of those. He looked at His Father in heaven and said "Father, I take this lie that Rachel said, this rape that Jerry committed, this murder that Caleb did, all the times Dr. Sing (well, He really would have said my real name ), this *whatever sin* that TU did, and so on until INFINITY. Then God looked at Him and said, you sinner!!! I hate you! Get out!!! Imagine, imagine, Jesus' agony at that. This is the reason why Jesus said "My God, My God, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME?" Notice, He didn't say, my Father..but God. This is the moment in history when the earth quaked, all the angels wept, the seas roared, the mountains trembled, the sky was filled with thunder, and Jesus cried. Then, Jesus said "Father, Forgive them" So, God the Father forgave them because Jesus took their sins upon Himself and paid the price for all those sins. Oh, people are innocent? Uhmm, prove it. You mean, all should get eternal life in heaven whether or not they believe in Jesus. Right? If this is what you mean by "unconditional", then, offering it unconditionally is pure injustice. Why should Sam pay for the surgery if Joe doesn't want to accept Sam's money? Is Sam obligated to? Not at all. Period. Really???????? Wow, I'm interested. How does imputation apply to Atheism? How does propitiation? Atonement? Salvation? (And no, you cannot dodge this question.) You have a choice as to whether or not to be His one among His elite? Do you want to? Or no? You say you are an atheist= you do not want to be among His elite= you do not want to accept His invite to heaven= YOU make yourself lose mercy that He offers you. **I use "you" here to refer to any given human being, not TU)

The debate continued... Answer to first sentence,
But only bad people do bad things. You are saying "just because a peach tree produces an apple, doesn't mean that it is an apple tree". I'm saying "Well, it would not have produced an apple if it were a peach tree in the first place". Think about it. Sins don't make you a sinner. You sin BECAUSE you are a sinner.Answer to second sentence,
Because God loves the person, He pays for the action Himself and offers to redeem the person from the bondage of the action.Remaining answers:1. Dr. Sing is part of the world. God created the world (so says the Bible). Therefore, God created Dr. Sing.2. I have committed a lot of sins. Some include disobeying my parents, hating people, lying, wasting time, just to name a few. A drop of the ocean. How old are you? Are you married? I'm not married and I don't have kids, but I work with kids and know how they think. Your above statement reflects pretty much exactly how they think. Its like...parent (to johnnny): listen now sweetheart, I'll let you open the cookie jar and take one cookie for now but NEVER steal cookies when mommy's away. Johnny (innocent voice): okay, mama. ---Mama goes to bedroom......Johnny steals 5 cookies---Yep, now tell me, does your suggested method of action work? Alright,alright, lets try to clear up the mess. Do you, TU, believe that people are inherently sinful? Flaw number 1: Wrong definition of sin. Sin is defined "eternal separation of sinful man from holy God". Presently, there is no method of communication between God and Dr. Sing. Your theory collapses! Not only does Dr. Sing keep sinning but also God has turned His face away from Dr. Sing. Unless Dr. Sing is holy, God will not associate with her at all. Now what?Flaw 2: God never forcefully reforms people. This is where free-will kicks in. God helps people change if they choose to change. You haven't mentioned whether Dr. Sing wants to stop sinning, or doesn't want to stop sinning. Furthermore, because Dr. Sing is inherently sinful, even if she wants to stop sinning, she will still sin lifelong. Apple trees bear apples until they die. Why? Because they are apple trees.Now, lets understand why there is infinite punishment for sin:God created man in His image. God is eternal. Therefore, man is eternal. One sin is enough to disrupt God's plan to make humans live in Heaven. Separated from God, sinful man suffers eternally. Eternal suffering comes into play because men are eternal creatures, not because God is SO ANGRY THAT HE WANTS TO TORMENT YOU FOREVER. Not at all. In this case, Joe is saying "I will not accept Sam's money if he came to me or did not come to me, I just don't want Sam's money, I want to die. Please let me die!"I'm sorry you don't think He exists. He does. And my answer (for the billionth time) is, no God cannot forgiven sins without sacrifice. And God cannot easily say Y if Y contradicts His nature. What will you do if I did prove so? What exactly do you want me to prove in the Bible? Which points are more pertinent to you? Is there anything you find hard to agree with? Somehow, I see genuine earnestness in this quote of yours. I really do. And I wish I could somehow show you that God is not this cruel monarch that you imagine Him to be..........I wish, I wish, I wish, you would talk with God and He would talk with you. Exactly. The Bible's defines sin as separation from God. Not "doing bad things". So, now what? The ball's in your court. Man's inherent sinful nature. Because sin separates men from God A reason for Heb 9:22? So that sinners understand THE COST OF SIN. Sin is no light matter to be forgiven with just a sorry, or a pretty i'll neer do it again' card. God is serious about sin. Therefore Heb 9:22 No twisting words, please. You said "why can't God "just forgive sins", implying forgive without requiring punishment. But God's Word says that every single sin will be punished (a just God). So I said, if God forgave sin without punishing someone for it, He would be breaking His own rule (be unjust). Which would make God a liar. Okay, so whats your problem? What is your philosophy of life? How do you viw existence? What is your definition is purpose? love? gain? loss? grace? charity? Who is your rolemodel, if you have one? Who do you look upto for advice? Who do you trust? What do you do when life gives you trials? What do you think about death? Its Bhagavad Gita. Baghdad is the capital of Iraq. I'm trying. Put yourself in my shoes, I got asked the same question atleast 20 times and answered it as many! Questioning is easy. Answering makes you sweat. Anywho, since you asked politely, I'll promise to be nicer if you promise to act smarter.

No, it does not change the fact that it was killing. Sin is sin.God does not lie or steal. Try this with a few kids and let me know your results. Wait, you said you were an atheist. The Bible. Because sin removes all communication between God and man when he sin. God helps me become holy and never turns away when I need Him. Ever. Its called sanctification. Even when I dirty myself with sin, He looks at me with mercy and when I repent, He forgives me and embraces me. Nonsensical proposition. ---No reply from Dr. Sing. Only an appeal to TU to think before he responds.--- An emphatic and resounding YES! Control is a tricky word. If you mean, does she have the ability refrain from sinning, then yes, she does. But she possessing the above ability only by the power of the Holy Spirit which indwells Dr. Sing. If man could not sin, them man would be no different from God. O.o According to the Bible, only God cannot sin. What is your point? Or do you have one? You don't understand "created in God's image", read up on it before further discussion. Which way? The Bible has an answer. Read it. Actually, its the other way round. You got it right except you need to switch the objects in your sentences, but other than that, you seem to slowly be getting my points. The Bible has the answers. Read or listen to a few sermons from preachers like John Piper, John MacArthur and John Calvin. I live my life to bring glory to God. Because God loves me and its the least I can do for Him.I need an answer for this question: