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Author Topic:   Did Jesus Really Suffer?
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 828 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 6 of 73 (534348)
11-07-2009 1:35 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Peg
11-07-2009 12:06 AM


Peg writes:
This is a first prophecy regarding the 'Seed' who was to come and give his life as a sacrifice. This 'seed' is the Messiah, Jesus Christ and his role was to prove Satans claim false and give the children of A&E an opportunity to live the life that they lost.
Genesis 3:14-15 writes:
And Jehovah God saith unto the serpent, `Because thou hast done this, cursed [art] thou above all the cattle, and above every beast of the field: on thy belly dost thou go, and dust thou dost eat, all days of thy life;
15and enmity I put between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; he doth bruise thee -- the head, and thou dost bruise him -- the heel.'
No, quite not. That is some serious straining to pull a different meaning from that verse, peg. It looks as though it means there will be anymosity between the seed of A&E and of the serpant. This has diddly to do with any prophecy of jesus.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Peg, posted 11-07-2009 12:06 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Peg, posted 11-07-2009 1:43 AM hooah212002 has replied
 Message 10 by cavediver, posted 11-07-2009 8:28 AM hooah212002 has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 828 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 8 of 73 (534352)
11-07-2009 2:00 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Peg
11-07-2009 1:43 AM


explain why you think so
I understand the English language......
I don't know how to make it more clear than putting the verse in front of you. There isn't the slightest inuendo of any "future messiah" anywhere. This is strictly speaking of the serpant and A&E.
unless you want to say verse 15 is completely eperate from verse 14????
Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.

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 Message 9 by AdminPD, posted 11-07-2009 2:13 AM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 828 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 11 of 73 (534403)
11-07-2009 6:32 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by cavediver
11-07-2009 8:28 AM


Just as an aside, it was finally appreciating that the extremely well-establishedand and blatently obvious 'first messianic prophecy' of Genesis 3:15 was actually complete bullshit, that began my journey towards leaving 20+ years of evangelical christianity.
Wait a cotton pickin' minute: you mean that it is a well established "prophecy" and not just peg making shit up? Does the english language fail horribly? I mean, I admit I don't understand hebrew so maybe the original text said something completely different, but did the transcribers get it wrong or something?
/baffled

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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 828 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 16 of 73 (534485)
11-08-2009 6:34 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Hyroglyphx
11-08-2009 11:18 AM


So again I ask, what purpose does it serve to have ever created the physical world when it is more than evident, by scripture, that the spiritual world is all that really matters?
I've thought this myself many times: why create all the asshole airsucking bonebags if you already know who you want to come hang out with you for eternity, and that list is already made up...AND if that's the ultimate goal: to get to heaven?
Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.
Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.

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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 828 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 27 of 73 (534787)
11-11-2009 2:58 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by Peg
11-11-2009 2:29 AM


Of course they had comprehension of death, the animals around them died, so they knew what death was. God placing the law on the tree was how they knew it was bad not to listen...the law told them what would happen if they disobeyed it.
You are literally the first literal creation believer I have seen say that there was death before the fall. Most I have seen say that there was no death before the eating of teh apple.
Is it?
Many other translations simply say "before Abraham was,I have been" or "I was"
So which bible is right? (hint: that seems a mighty hefty problem with christianity, at least for me)
if he corrected things in Eden, You and I would not be alive today. We are from the genes of Adam and Eve. It was their blood line that we have come through...if they produced no children, none of us would be alive today.
So god can't give himself a second chance? It was all or nothing? God said to himself "ok, I've got one shot to make mankind. Here goes: FAAAAAKKKKKKK! I screwed up. Oh well, I will just damn them all and make them atone for this first broad's mistake."
and yet millions of other angles and 1 other perfect human have remained sinfree...doesnt make sense if we are prone to sin.
Jesus was tested to the extreme and yet remained sin free. Millions of other Angels have remained sin free too so its not impossible.
regular humans don't come back to life, walking the earth as zombies. So to use jesus as a picture of perfection to prove that MAN can be sinfree....is daft. he is not a man, he is god incarnate/son of god.
you do that by looking at what you are being told with a critical eye and comparing those teachings with Gods word the bible.
Which one? you've already shown that not all bibles say the same thing. Don't get me started on the Q'uran.
Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Peg, posted 11-11-2009 2:29 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Peg, posted 11-11-2009 5:34 AM hooah212002 has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 828 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 29 of 73 (534799)
11-11-2009 5:45 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by Peg
11-11-2009 5:34 AM


it is a problem i agree...however not one that cannot be identified. More accurate knowlege of the Hebrew language has helped many translators to convey accurately the original language. A lot of misunderstanding is also the result of church doctrines... in this case the idea that Jesus is God might cause a translator to make that verse read 'I Am' as Hydroglyphx translation did.
yet you are quite confident that the one you read is the correct one........
.......the bibles simple truth .......
please, please, show me some simplicity ANYWHERE in the bible after the part that says "in the beginning...."
you can study yourself, there are plenty of reference works to help people understand hebrew....you could even learn hebrew and read it yourself
Or I could not.

This message is a reply to:
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