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Author Topic:   The Big Bang and the visible past.
frako
Member (Idle past 392 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 46 of 89 (582970)
09-24-2010 2:12 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by Buzsaw
09-24-2010 1:45 AM


Re: Comprehending terms.
sure buz and that designers name is Perun the ancient god of the Slovan people and the only way to get in to his heaven is to pour a little wine on the ground every time you drink thus offering it to him

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Buzsaw, posted 09-24-2010 1:45 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3729 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 47 of 89 (582982)
09-24-2010 4:11 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by Buzsaw
09-24-2010 12:04 AM


Re: Incomprehension
You expect me to comprehend your model of no before, no outside of, no space and time...
No, I don't. It's not easy stuff, and I expect most to have great trouble in comprehending it. What I *don't* expect is for you to ridicule it just because you don't understand it.
And I have no clue as to what you mean by "eternal". In the context of space-time physics, a word like "eternal" is ridiculously vague and could pertain to any number of concepts. And if time itself is past-finite in extent, then what the hell does eternal mean?
Intelligence is an attribute of humans and other complex organisms, that relates to an ability to learn from experience and apply that knowledge in future situations. We can build machines that exhibit this behaviour. Is this what you mean by "intelligent"?
And "designer"? As in one who works out the details of a construction in theory before the actual construction is implemented? So more like an architect than, say, a beaver?
So an "intelligent designer" is a complex organism that learns from experience and that can plan the details of a construction before actually building it.
Does that sound right?
If not, would you care to explain WHAT YOU DO MEAN...???

This message is a reply to:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 48 of 89 (583005)
09-24-2010 9:13 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by nwr
09-24-2010 2:10 AM


Re: Redefining Definition
nwr writes:
Buzsaw writes:
I understand that, but the terms which Cavediver called for the meaning of were eternal, intelligent and designer. Scientifically or otherwise, the BB does not define any of these, whether or not they are used in conjunction with the topic of BB or whether they are used in conjunction with another scientific topic.
The BB defines time. And the usual meaning of "eternal" depends on time. So, again, what does "eternal" mean such that it does not involve time?
Oh, so now we're into the definition of definition. My understanding of the word definition is that things being defined do not determine the definition of things pertaining to the thing being defined so as to accomodate POVs of BB groups. The BB allegedly defines itself so as for it's proponents to change the meaning of terms like eternity, intelligence and design, so as to absolve it's proponents of any need to explain the mysterious aspects of it.
The ID Bible, by this token, defines anything pertaining to itself for interpretation of anything pertaing to it to accomodate Biblical POV groups. Dictionary definitions need not be applied to anything Biblical.
Edited by Buzsaw, : Reword message title

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by nwr, posted 09-24-2010 2:10 AM nwr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by Huntard, posted 09-24-2010 9:49 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 51 by nwr, posted 09-24-2010 10:35 AM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 52 by jar, posted 09-24-2010 10:35 AM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 53 by Theodoric, posted 09-24-2010 10:42 AM Buzsaw has replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2381 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 49 of 89 (583010)
09-24-2010 9:49 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by Buzsaw
09-24-2010 9:13 AM


Re: Redefining Definition
Buzsaw writes:
Dictionary definitions need not be applied to anything Biblical.
Ok, so when it says that Adam, for example, lived to be 900 years (or something of that nature), it doesn't mean the actual 900 years, that we mean when we speak of 900 years, it could be 80 years, since the dictionary definition of year does not aply. Good to know.
Wait... This means I can make the bible say literally anything I want! Neat!

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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nwr
Member
Posts: 6421
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 50 of 89 (583018)
09-24-2010 10:31 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by Huntard
09-24-2010 9:49 AM


Re: Redefining Definition
Huntard writes:
Wait... This means I can make the bible say literally anything I want! Neat!
I think you now understand fundamentalist Christianity.

Jesus was a liberal hippie

This message is a reply to:
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nwr
Member
Posts: 6421
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 51 of 89 (583021)
09-24-2010 10:35 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by Buzsaw
09-24-2010 9:13 AM


Re: Redefining Definition
Buzsaw writes:
My understanding of the word definition is that things being defined do not determine the definition of things pertaining to the thing being defined so as to accomodate POVs of BB groups. The BB allegedly defines itself so as for it's proponents to change the meaning of terms like eternity, intelligence and design, so as to absolve it's proponents of any need to explain the mysterious aspects of it.
That seems to have a high gibberish content.

Jesus was a liberal hippie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Buzsaw, posted 09-24-2010 9:13 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by Buzsaw, posted 09-24-2010 1:36 PM nwr has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34064
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 52 of 89 (583022)
09-24-2010 10:35 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by Buzsaw
09-24-2010 9:13 AM


Re: Redefining Definition
Buz writes:
The BB allegedly defines itself so as for it's proponents to change the meaning of terms like eternity, intelligence and design, so as to absolve it's proponents of any need to explain the mysterious aspects of it.
Good God Buz, do you ever read what you write?
How can you say that the proponents (whatever that means) try to absolve themselves of explaining the mysterious aspects?
Cavediver and others have spent post after post trying to explain it to you. What exactly do you think particle theorists and cosmologists do other than try to explain and more importantly test, the mysterious aspects to advance understanding.
Buz writes:
The ID Bible, by this token, defines anything pertaining to itself for interpretation of anything pertaing to it to accomodate Biblical POV groups. Dictionary definitions need not be applied to anything Biblical.
HUH?
The "ID Bible"?
It defines itself?
No dictionary need apply?
Come on Buz, where did you find this "ID Bible"?
Is there any chance we can actually get you to present chapter and verse from this "ID Bible" so we can test what you say?
Edited by jar, : applin spallin

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Buzsaw, posted 09-24-2010 9:13 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by Buzsaw, posted 09-24-2010 1:48 PM jar has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9283
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 53 of 89 (583025)
09-24-2010 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by Buzsaw
09-24-2010 9:13 AM


Dereailing again?
Is there any chance that you will one day cease to derail the science threads that deal with the BB? Or for that matter any science thread. Your bronze age myths have nothing to do with cosmology or any of the sciences. Please, please keep your proselytizing and myths to the appropriate forums.
There are a lot of interesting concepts and ideas discussed in the science threads. You derailing them constantly is starting to get on my nerves. If you want to provide scientific evidence or concepts by all means go ahead, but please keep your myths out of here.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Buzsaw, posted 09-24-2010 9:13 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by Buzsaw, posted 09-24-2010 1:34 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 54 of 89 (583062)
09-24-2010 1:34 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Theodoric
09-24-2010 10:42 AM


Re: Dereailing again?
Theodoric writes:
There are a lot of interesting concepts and ideas discussed in the science threads. You derailing them constantly is starting to get on my nerves. If you want to provide scientific evidence or concepts by all means go ahead, but please keep your myths out of here.
Debunking opposing POVs relative to topic is what my input has been about. It's high time for someone to aire countering arguments for the redifinition of basic long established word meanings by the secularistic constituency, so as to accomodate otherwise unexplainable and unobservable aspects of the singularity which allegedly preciptated the BB.
Myths? Please! Asside from redefinition of words, the BB singularity event definably equates the BB, pre-empted by the alleged singularity.
Btw, you're highly overstating my limited imput in the sicence fora. You should know by now that I avoid those which are beyond my ability to engage.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Theodoric, posted 09-24-2010 10:42 AM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by Son, posted 09-24-2010 1:58 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 60 by onifre, posted 09-24-2010 5:43 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 55 of 89 (583063)
09-24-2010 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by nwr
09-24-2010 10:35 AM


Re: Redefining Definition
nwr writes:
That seems to have a high gibberish content.
Please reread carefully and get back to me regarding what you are unable to comprehend.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by nwr, posted 09-24-2010 10:35 AM nwr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by nwr, posted 09-24-2010 2:33 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 56 of 89 (583065)
09-24-2010 1:48 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by jar
09-24-2010 10:35 AM


Re: Redefining Definition
jar writes:
Buzsaw writes:
The BB allegedly defines itself so as for it's proponents to change the meaning of terms like eternity, intelligence and design, so as to absolve it's proponents of any need to explain the mysterious aspects of it.
........do you ever read what you write?
Does the BB allegedly defining aspects of itself, as advocated by Cavediver, match or redefine the long standing dictionary definitions of these word terms?

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by jar, posted 09-24-2010 10:35 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by jar, posted 09-24-2010 2:07 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Son
Member (Idle past 3916 days)
Posts: 346
From: France,Paris
Joined: 03-11-2009


Message 57 of 89 (583067)
09-24-2010 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Buzsaw
09-24-2010 1:34 PM


Re: Dereailing again?
You want to talk about BB( and contradict it) when you couldn't even define a straight line? Are you actually serious? The problem is that you don't even understand such basic concepts. Of course, it makes you feel you are right because you ignore even your own ignorance, but others see how ignorant you are and just don't want to bother with you derailing an interesting topic where we actually try to understand real science. It's not your place to redefine anything when you can't even define the most basics of concepts.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Buzsaw, posted 09-24-2010 1:34 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34064
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 58 of 89 (583073)
09-24-2010 2:07 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by Buzsaw
09-24-2010 1:48 PM


Re: Redefining Definition
Buz writes:
Does the BB allegedly defining aspects of itself, as advocated by Cavediver, match or redefine the long standing dictionary definitions of these word terms?
HUH?
Word salad?
What does that even mean?
You do know that a Dictionary is nothing more then a history of how terms were used in the past don't you?
You do understand that the post you are replying to was pointing out that you were misrepresenting what others have said?
Did you or did you not say
Buz writes:
"The BB allegedly defines itself so as for it's proponents to change the meaning of terms like eternity, intelligence and design, so as to absolve it's proponents of any need to explain the mysterious aspects of it"
Pay attention to the bold and underlined parts.
Did you actually read this...
quote:
How can you say that the proponents (whatever that means) try to absolve themselves of explaining the mysterious aspects?
Cavediver and others have spent post after post trying to explain it to you. What exactly do you think particle theorists and cosmologists do other than try to explain and more importantly test, the mysterious aspects to advance understanding.
When you asserted that there is some "ID Bible" did you not say
Buz writes:
"The ID Bible, by this token, defines anything pertaining to itself for interpretation of anything pertaing to it to accomodate Biblical POV groups. Dictionary definitions need not be applied to anything Biblical. "
Pay attention to the bold and underlined parts.
Yet now you respond by claiming some higher authority devolves on Dictionary definitions?
Buz writes:
Does the BB allegedly defining aspects of itself, as advocated by Cavediver, match or redefine the long standing dictionary definitions of these word terms?
Pay attention to the bold and underlined parts.
So once again I have to ask, do you ever read what you write?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Buzsaw, posted 09-24-2010 1:48 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6421
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 59 of 89 (583088)
09-24-2010 2:33 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by Buzsaw
09-24-2010 1:36 PM


Re: Redefining Definition
nwr writes:
That seems to have a high gibberish content.
Buzsaw writes:
Please reread carefully and get back to me regarding what you are unable to comprehend.
I have reread. It is still gibberish.
It seems to say that words get their meaning by magic, and that therefore you are exempt from defining your terms since magic has already handled that.
It is nonsense.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Buzsaw, posted 09-24-2010 1:36 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by Buzsaw, posted 09-24-2010 7:31 PM nwr has replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 3037 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 60 of 89 (583121)
09-24-2010 5:43 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Buzsaw
09-24-2010 1:34 PM


Re: Dereailing again?
You should know by now that I avoid those which are beyond my ability to engage.
Holllyyyy shittttt. That, honestly, was the funniest shit you've ever said Buz. Thanks bro, I was having a bad day at the airport.
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Buzsaw, posted 09-24-2010 1:34 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
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