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Author Topic:   Has natural selection really been tested and verified?
CosmicChimp
Member
Posts: 311
From: Muenchen Bayern Deutschland
Joined: 06-15-2007


Message 19 of 302 (536335)
11-21-2009 10:22 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Bolder-dash
11-21-2009 7:01 PM


Bolder-dash writes:
...
It is kind of funny that one would cite a population of people developing a resistance to disease in a few decades as evidence that Darwin's theorized process of slow gradual change, based on random mutations caused these resistances.
...
You seem to be genuinely surprised that "Darwin's theorized process" could account for the prevalence of a newly discovered variation of the prion protein gene. The variation seems to give at least partial protection from kuru. I would expect to find-out that this protective polymorphism would be disproportionately represented in the human population located exactly where past cultural practices existed that propagated kuru.
Conversely, if the protective variation were not present in a local population, I would expect that it had died out as well as the dangerous cultural practice; or that kuru had never been a significant enough causal agent for the gene variant being selected for at any instantiation.
Added by edit {ABE}: Why do you think that this polymorphism should not be in a global location where it would be selected for? Is your objection having more to do with this variation of an existing gene being the cause of the protection or are you concerned about when how and why the mutation occurred in the first place?
Edited by CosmicChimp, : clarity
Edited by CosmicChimp, : added a question at bottom.
Edited by CosmicChimp, : apostrophe usage and editing for clarity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Bolder-dash, posted 11-21-2009 7:01 PM Bolder-dash has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Bolder-dash, posted 11-22-2009 2:22 AM CosmicChimp has replied

CosmicChimp
Member
Posts: 311
From: Muenchen Bayern Deutschland
Joined: 06-15-2007


Message 26 of 302 (536367)
11-22-2009 8:39 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by ICANT
11-22-2009 12:30 AM


Special pleading, begging even.
It seems to me that you have stated that all of the properties of evolution are present; but then go on to claim that what is observed is not evolution. Other than your special pleading claim, that it is not evolution, can you somehow show that what happened is not evolution? Because it is evolution. It really and truly is evolution, by definition. If you want any more than my special pleading review RAZD's post it's all in there.
Edited by CosmicChimp, : new subheading

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 Message 36 by Bolder-dash, posted 11-22-2009 9:23 PM CosmicChimp has seen this message but not replied

CosmicChimp
Member
Posts: 311
From: Muenchen Bayern Deutschland
Joined: 06-15-2007


Message 38 of 302 (536406)
11-22-2009 9:45 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Bolder-dash
11-22-2009 2:22 AM


Suffice it to say that your views on the subject are misinformed. I know that you don't want to read texts of people telling you that (as you alluded to in the OP), I expect it is because you have read it too often. You should take it as good advice from those previous individuals and especially from some of us here when we write it too. You're going to have to do the actual work involved if you want to understand the core issues. RAZD, lyx2no, Wounded King, Blzebub, Coyote, Granny Magda and others have kindly pointed out most of the problems. I concur with their assessments. Read the material RAZD linked to and re-read Wounded King's response to this your post, that I too am responding to. You have too much on your plate so I'm not going to offer much more than the others have stated already.
I will however reiterate a small clue for you. Within a complex system of action -> reaction, evident in something like prion diseases, one mutation effecting the propagation of the disease is not the single and only possible way to change outcomes. You seem focused on an unwarranted narrowing down of causes when any number of subtle changes to the intertwined system could and would have various effects. Good luck in your studies, remember read for comprehension.
Edited by CosmicChimp, : spelling

This message is a reply to:
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CosmicChimp
Member
Posts: 311
From: Muenchen Bayern Deutschland
Joined: 06-15-2007


Message 49 of 302 (536517)
11-23-2009 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Bolder-dash
11-23-2009 9:40 AM


...
I won't however defer based on your tired and worn out theme of "well you just don't know biology, so you are wrong" argument (I even suggested when I first proposed this topic that this type of defense be excluded, because its simply not saying a dam thing.., but the admin required me to remove that part of my suggestion-although I knew it wouldn't take long for someone to drag it out).
Your problem is that you do not understand basic biology. You should get a basic biology book and read it (read it for comprehension). You have simply waved away all of the pertinent discussion above and made uninformed discussion about new topics. I will remind you that you yourself have made this topic about natural selection and whether or not it has been verified.
This is JUST ONE of the MANY problems the ToE has to address before it should expect thinking people to all just accept it as a reasonable explanation in my opinion. Especially, since it seems as you all are showing, that we really can't test this. Don't just say its nonsense..spend time thinking about it.
Where are you going in this post? Your topic is about natural selection stay on it, review the material that has been presented to you and come back with informed purposeful meaningful questions about the material. If you think you're coming here to preach and tell us about how Darwin was wrong then you sir are an imbecile of the highest magnitude.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Bolder-dash, posted 11-23-2009 9:40 AM Bolder-dash has not replied

CosmicChimp
Member
Posts: 311
From: Muenchen Bayern Deutschland
Joined: 06-15-2007


Message 247 of 302 (537447)
11-28-2009 5:50 PM
Reply to: Message 192 by Bolder-dash
11-28-2009 6:08 AM


Re: Back to Basics
balderdash writes:
Evolution is any heritable change to a lineage? That would make any sexual reproduction evolution.
You should go read a biology book. Or go fly a kite. Or do practically anything other than posting here.
This part: "That would make any sexual reproduction evolution."; I think has validity to it. The next logical step back on the scale would be gamete formation.
You may do some useful science yet, BD.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 192 by Bolder-dash, posted 11-28-2009 6:08 AM Bolder-dash has not replied

CosmicChimp
Member
Posts: 311
From: Muenchen Bayern Deutschland
Joined: 06-15-2007


Message 299 of 302 (537656)
11-30-2009 4:48 AM


closing remarks
Balder-Dash's conflation of natural selection together with evolution has done no one any good. Upon repeatedly being informed of the mistake BD was none the wiser at the end of the thread as at the start. BD would do well to simply take the little time needed to learn the basic biology behind his many fully false ideas concerning and surrounding evolution and the ToE. It would even seem he has a penchant for clear thinking and could well profit from his efforts; although his stubbornness and arrogance is self defeating to a great extent.
Selection is clearly unequivocally taking place in nature. Some individuals are better able to reproduce than others especially within their own populations. These are facts easily determined to be true.

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