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| Author | Topic: Has natural selection really been tested and verified? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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cavediver Member (Idle past 1686 days)  Posts: 4129 From: UK Joined:
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I challenge anyone to present a university-employed publishing biological scientist, unaffiliated with a religious organisation, who does not think as I do regarding the Theory of Evolution. It is not in the slightest bit surpising that 99.99% of those claiming that there are huge gaps in the Theory of Evolution are from the three major Abrahamic relgions. This leaves you with the simple choice - either you are wrong, or the entire world-wide a-religious community of scientists is deluded or involved in the world's largest conspiracy. And I should add that the vast majority of the world's religious scientists also have exactly the same opinion regarding the ToE, including many of my envangelical Christian friends. So they too would have to be in on this conspiracy... Edited by cavediver, : No reason given.
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Dr Adequate Member  Posts: 16083 Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
If this means that you're going to take your ball and go home, then goodbye. I should still advise you to learn the meaning of the words that you're using if you ever wish to engage in any further debate on this topic. Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
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herebedragons Member  Posts: 1493 From: Michigan Joined: |
Has speciation occurred in Galapogos finches or not? Or has it been observed anywhere for that matter? I have info on Grenish Warblers and peppered moths and I am not convinced that either one is truely speciation.
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Bolder-dash Member (Idle past 1673 days) Posts: 983 From: China Joined: |
Simon Conway Morris... Oops, I win. Gee that didn't take long at all. Care to try your luck at another sport you are better equipped for? Arm wrestling?
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Bolder-dash Member (Idle past 1673 days) Posts: 983 From: China Joined: |
Of course your criteria for evidence is obviously much lower than mine.
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cavediver Member (Idle past 1686 days) Posts: 4129 From: UK Joined: |
You're just deternmined to be an epic failure here, aren't you? Admittedly, Morris has some fanciful ideas about higher purpose seen in evolution and the Universe at large, but so do I every other Thursday...
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Bolder-dash Member (Idle past 1673 days) Posts: 983 From: China Joined: |
You got me there. I guess no one is going to meet that challenge. You are good.
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Dr Adequate Member Posts: 16083 Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
Of course --- but not during the few years that anyone has been looking, and no-one has ever claimed that it has.
Yes. But don't just take my word for it. For example, the CreationWiki states: Speciation, or the formation of a new species, does occur with some regularity. And the foremost creationist site on the internet, Answers in Genesis, states: New species have been observed to form. In fact, rapid speciation is an important part of the creation model. When creationists have so far given up on denying speciation that they're now claiming it as "an important part of the creationist model", then I believe that the debate is over. Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
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Admin Director  Posts: 12578 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 4.6 |
Please confine your discussion and comments to the topic.
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Dr Adequate Member Posts: 16083 Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
You're good at not seeing evidence for reality. Er ... should I congratulate you?
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DevilsAdvocate Member (Idle past 1144 days)  Posts: 1548 Joined: |
Yet, 40% of scientists in America believe in some form of theistic evolution thus believing both in God and evolution. 55% believe in naturalistic evolution with no influence by God and less than 5% believe in Creationism. (source: Beliefs of American earth and life scientists Yeah, your argument holds water. Like a sieve. Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given. “One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous.” - Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection "You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan "It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World
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NosyNed Member  Posts: 8829 From: Canada Joined: Member Rating: 4.3
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NS is selecting out specific patterns. Eventually you'd end up with a very, very restricted gene pool if no new variation is being added. All this would do is hasten the time when the final selection is made and the species goes extinct. Which is perfectly good evolution too.
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Dr Adequate Member Posts: 16083 Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
Oh, that thing. What happened to that? We were talking about moths and guppies and finches and actual observations of the law of natural selection actually happening, which seemed like splendid ways to test the law of natural selection, and then somehow the stupid bomb exploded. --- P.S: My previous post was posted after your warning, but I started posting it before I'd read it, and so it was not intended to be in defiance of your fiat.
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RAZD Member  Posts: 19730 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
The change in frequency of hereditary traits is the result of natural selection, of new mutations, of genetic drift, of random disasters, etc. When this change is observed we can say evolution has occurred. Natural selection is one of the processes that cause evolution, and it specifically addresses survival and reproductive success of individuals - a small correction to your previous post: NS operates on individual phenotypes, the developed organism that results from their genotype and developmental process (thus including environmental factors and acquired factors in the selection process). Certainly when NS occurs then evolution occurs, but evolution can also occur without NS. When mutations occur, and add new hereditary traits, evolution occurs. NS causes the change in frequency, evolution results from it being changed. Enjoy. by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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RAZD Member Posts: 19730 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
No. Evolution is a response mechanism. Change occurs in response to a change in the ecology of the species. Random mutations and genetic drift can cause some difference in the average values of a population, but it is undirected (hence "random" and "drift" terms).
This is natural selection: those that are better adapted to the changed ecology survive and breed better than those that are not as well adapted.
Natural selection is a part of evolution. One part of many. Enjoy. by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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