Hate-crime = Thought crime?

I'll let Rrhain and Straggler speak for themselves. But for me, yes, I do believe that such behavior is an attack on the whole community. How would you like it if a bunch of drunken muslims seeked out and beat the crap out of a fellow christian in your community, especially if your christian community is in the middle of a muslim majority society? And I know for a fact that you'd be lying if you tell me you would have no concern for your safety and the safety of your family in such a situation.Being intoxicated is not an excuse for any crime, period.

Nope, I don't think she set out to send a message to the whole Pakistani community, not intentionally anyway. Just like those men who killed Matthew Sheppard didn't set out to send a message to the whole gay community when they decided on a whim to kidnap Matthew, torture him for hours, and left him to die tied to a fence. But the result was the same. Gay people in that city were terrorized because of the act. Many gay people immediately moved out of that state out of fear for their lives. Yes, you are. If you ever intended to even imply that the woman would have done or said something different if she hadn't been drinking, it's an excuse. You know, speaking as an LEO, it's funny how people who realize they do and say hurtful things when intoxicated continue to get intoxicated. Especially in domestic cases, it's always the booze, and it's always "I really love my wife" after beating the snot out of her. But that's another story. It's not an overreaction. Again, how would you react if you find out someone in your christian community has been attacked by, say, someone from the muslim community if your christian community happens to be living smack in the middle of an overwhelming muslim majority country?I hope you realize this is more than just a hypothetical situation. In countries like Iraq, whole communities have voluntarily relocated simply because they were christian and felt threatened enough by verbal and sometimes physical attacks to some of their members from the muslim majority. Ding ding ding ding, and thus we have a perfect demonstration of why crimes against humanity have been even allowed to happen at all. I think I understand what's missing here. It is the perceived unempathetic nature that is the difference between us. Because it is human nature to identify oneself with a specific group or groups. Suppose Chinese people go on a rampage and begin attacking specifically American citizens abroad. It wouldn't just be crimes against anyone. It would be crimes against AMERICAN CITIZENS. You of all people should realize this because of recent execution of a mentally unstable British citizen by the Chinese. It's not just the execution of anyone. It's the execution of a British citizen who wasn't given a fair trial.Minority groups are vulnerable. We know this from history. It even went as far as the ovens. Perhaps you have enjoyed being part of the majority all your life that you are delusional enough to think you wouldn't be affected if you were to live as a minority. I don't know. But the fact remains that people belonging to minority groups feel threatened every time members of their community got hurt. It's not just an attack on that person. It's an attack on the whole community.

I agree with you. Don't get me wrong, I realized they were out specifically to pick up a gay person for their thing. What I was responding to was that they didn't specifically say to themselves "let's terrorize the gay community by..." That's how I interpret legend's posts. They seem to be making the argument that people who are charged with hate crimes didn't specifically think to themselves "let's terrorize such and such community..." But the fact that they specifically went out to get certain members of said community delivers the same message as if they were to post a big poster saying they intended to terrorize that community.Edited by Taz, : No reason given.

I'm sorry, did American English and British English really go down 2 separate paths far enough that you somehow thought I said the opposite of what I actually said?

No, that's not what I said. I said regardless of whether they specifically told themselves to go out and put a nigger in his place or simply just having a drunken night gone wild, the result is still the same.Scenario 1My buddies and I one night decide to go out and pick up a Korean chink to beat up. We find one and we jump him. While beating the crap out of him, we yell into his ears "GO BACK TO CHINA YOU FUCKING KOREAN CHINK!"Scenario 2My buddies and I one night decide to go out to a bar. The bartender, which happens to be Korean, begins to refuse to serve us because we're too drunk and we're getting loud which is alarming everyone else in the bar. Having a fit, we jump the bartender and while beating the crap out of him we yell into his ears "GO BACK TO CHINA YOU FUCKING KOREAN CHINK!"Regardless of whether I'm a racist or not in either scenario, the result is the same. My friends and I just upped the terror alert in the local Korean community.Again, you are too caught up in this "but she was drunk" excuse.