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Author Topic:   Hate-crime = Thought crime?
Bolder-dash
Member (Idle past 3657 days)
Posts: 983
From: China
Joined: 11-14-2009


Message 162 of 376 (539145)
12-13-2009 10:46 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Rrhain
11-28-2009 5:56 AM


I was going to respond to the OP, then I realized that my reply wouldn't be as good as yours.
Isn't this all obvious?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Rrhain, posted 11-28-2009 5:56 AM Rrhain has not replied

  
Bolder-dash
Member (Idle past 3657 days)
Posts: 983
From: China
Joined: 11-14-2009


Message 163 of 376 (539151)
12-13-2009 11:13 AM


Ok, well I will add this if it hasn't already been said in a fashion.
The simple reason for adding an additional penalty to a hate crime is because the crime is directed both at the individual and at others who are part of that targeted group. If I stab a person because they are gay, and there is reason and evidence to believe that that stabbing was also intended as a message to other gays that they should be afraid, and that they may be targeted next, simply because of their affiliation, then that is an additional crime. You are harming one individual, while at the same time, inciting fear in a group.
It is not much different from burning a cross on a black man's lawn. The point is not that you were burning wood, and may have violated a county ordinance against burning something in an improper burning receptacle. The point is that you are trying to scare or intimidate someone. That is a separate crime from the improper use of firewood.
Now the reason why such a law might carry more of a penalty if it was directed at a black man than at a white man, is because it is unlikely that if a white man had a cross burned on his lawn by another white man, that the rest of the entire white community would be fearful that by being white, they might also be in more danger than other people. But if say a black gang was specifically targeting white people by tying white people up and hanging them from a tree with a sign around their neck that said , "whiteys watch out, we are coming after you"...then you might have something there. That crime would certainly be more scary to the community than simply tying some person up for no reason and then letting them leave.
Not so hard a concept to follow is it?
Edited by Bolder-dash, : spelling

Replies to this message:
 Message 165 by onifre, posted 12-13-2009 12:07 PM Bolder-dash has replied

  
Bolder-dash
Member (Idle past 3657 days)
Posts: 983
From: China
Joined: 11-14-2009


Message 166 of 376 (539163)
12-13-2009 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by onifre
12-13-2009 12:07 PM


So you add more of a penalty to an individual who commited a single crime because of the feelings the rest of the targeted group may or may not be experiencing? How does anyone know what the community is feeling?
Sounds a bit shitty to me.
So what? Do you think laws should be made that don't sound shitty to you?
Are you concerned that the bigots, and hate mongers just aren't getting a fair shake?
Well, guess what, the commnuity has decided that they know what the targeted groups will feel, that is why communities make laws. If they don't like the laws, the community gets to change them.
Are you also opposed to laws that prohibit hate speech, and inciting violence? How about crimes against humanity like genocide (oh why do you have to be so shitty about it, just call it war). Well, even if you are, so what. More civilized people than you have already decided.

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 Message 165 by onifre, posted 12-13-2009 12:07 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 168 by onifre, posted 12-13-2009 12:35 PM Bolder-dash has not replied

  
Bolder-dash
Member (Idle past 3657 days)
Posts: 983
From: China
Joined: 11-14-2009


Message 172 of 376 (539181)
12-13-2009 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by onifre
12-13-2009 12:50 PM


Re: Vacuum of Evidence
Does 2003 count? That was the last time the Supreme Court upheld the state's right to ban cross burning based on the notion that the history of intimidation outweighed the KKK's right to free speech.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by onifre, posted 12-13-2009 12:50 PM onifre has not replied

  
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