Euthypro Dilemna

What you attribute to "God" telling you to do, is really just man anyway. Unless you have a direct line to God (and if so let's hear the evidence), all your "Godly endeavours" were instigated by man.If, on the other hand, you don't accept this and actually purport that a "God" tells you what to do, I would propose that an alternative explanation for this is that YOU tell yourself what to do, but base this on beliefs of what you think your God would like for you to do.I am of the opinion that anyone who claims to be in two-way communication with "God" needs to seek out a psychiatrist. I should add that I don't think you actually said this... but if you didn't, then you'd have to accept the idea that it is MAN who told you, via the Bible, Sunday sermon, or whatever other medium.

Apologies iano :/

Hi iano So, in Pakistan - if a girl has premarital sex with someone outside her caste, it is "good" for the family to kill her in an "honour killing". That would be a valid statement in many parts of Pakistan. How do they consider such a horrendous thing "good" ? Because it is God's will.That's not "your God", you say? Well... The Christian God seems to have some equally vicious ways of dealing with sexual promiscuity. Notice that there is only one tiny reference above that even remotely questions the woman's consent? "Because she cried not" - but, My Lord, my mouth was gagged and I could not cry out! - Sorry, too bad, you shall be put to death.The Bible is littered with ill-treatment of women, because it was written by men in a time when the ill-treatment of women was considered "good" - by which I guess you consider that it was also "God's will".What has happened since those ancient times that made God change his opinion of women?

------- still slightly off topic His name is Amr Khaled - BBC News - Muslim televangelist takes his message to millions I saw this story as well. I wish they could just dispense with this God fellow alltogether, but in the meantime it is nice to see occasional evidence of a shift away from fundamentalism.Edited by Briterican, : No reason given.

Hi iano Okay so... would you like to see the death penalty enacted for those found guilty of adultery in today's society? Would that be God's will in action? Would those executions be undeniably "good" by this "Good=God's Will" moral code?Women are given the short end of the stick from the word go in the Bible. Woman was created, almost as an afterthought, from one of Adam's ribs. Fanciful notion, and a perfect way to set the stage for an implied dominance of men over women, perpetuating the idea that women are wholly dependent on men. God is a male after all, isn't he? The ladies just can't get a break here!

Okay, so is there a 2010 edition of the Bible coming out soon where God gives us an update? That would really help out, since so much of the religious world places so much weight on these instructions that were meant "for a particular people at a particular time for a particular reason". Aim = stop sin? Tactic = execution? I don't know, you tell me since you "understand". I'm pleased to hear this, but I wonder upon what grounds you have decided that this part of the Bible is not applicable today, and upon what grounds other parts are? In order to come to these conclusions, you must draw upon resources outside of the Bible. And I, who consider the Bible to be a collection of fictional short stories, can come to conclusions about what is "good" without reference to those stories and without praying to God for guidance. Your interpretation is one of nobility and kindness. But again, by what method do you and the people in your Bible study group decide what is meant by these passages? In the absence of a Biblical footnote, you must draw upon resources outside of the Bible to decide what is meant by each and every sentence. There is no ultimate truth involved, only your interpretation of passages that might very well have been meant "for a particular people in a particular time for a particular reason".PS - Please forgive the occasional "snippy" tone - I'm passionate about this, probably as passionate as you are in your belief.

Regrettably no, but he and I are made of the same types of atoms, and we both descended from a common ancestor, so I like to think of myself as similar.

If by "black and white" you mean "completely and utterly ambiguous", then I agree.