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Author
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Topic: Species/Kinds (for Peg...and others)
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 827 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 100 of 425 (539826)
12-20-2009 7:09 AM
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Reply to: Message 93 by ICANT
12-20-2009 2:29 AM
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Re: Big Cats
ICANT writes: Couldn't they have been small cubs? So, how do they fend for themselves or learn what is necessary to survive in the wild? How do they get food after they left the ark? How are they mature enough to mate? How did they NOT get eaten by predators? Let me guess: god taught them?
Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people -Carl Sagan
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 93 by ICANT, posted 12-20-2009 2:29 AM | | ICANT has not replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 827 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 104 of 425 (539835)
12-20-2009 7:41 AM
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Reply to: Message 101 by Peg
12-20-2009 7:16 AM
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something is not quite right about it...perhaps they need to check their figures. So you know more about genetics than geneticists? Ever heard of the Human Genome Project?
Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people -Carl Sagan
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 101 by Peg, posted 12-20-2009 7:16 AM | | Peg has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 140 by Peg, posted 12-26-2009 6:10 AM | | hooah212002 has replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 827 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 130 of 425 (540365)
12-24-2009 11:53 AM
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Reply to: Message 126 by ICANT
12-23-2009 1:49 AM
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Re: Kind
What "kind" are these animals, ICANT?
Mother Nature shows a sense of Humor An Okapi:
A pangolin:
An armadillo Girdled lizard:
Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people -Carl Sagan For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. -Carl Sagan
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 126 by ICANT, posted 12-23-2009 1:49 AM | | ICANT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 132 by ICANT, posted 12-25-2009 9:34 AM | | hooah212002 has replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 827 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 139 of 425 (540480)
12-25-2009 2:04 PM
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Reply to: Message 132 by ICANT
12-25-2009 9:34 AM
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Re: Kind
A Okapi, is a giraffe kind. So, why does it not resemble a giraffe? Giraffes have long ass necks and are orange/yellow with brown spots. Seems like the Okapi changed quite a bit, eh? Why? How?
A pangolin, is a anteater kind. What about an Armadillo? Still an anteater kind as well? Why did an anteater get armor in the case of the pangolin? Seems like a pretty far reaching thing to have happened in 4000 years, don't you? If god made them a certain way, why did nature see fit to give them armor?
An armadillo Girdled lizard, as the name implies is a lizard kind. If god made lizards, why did nature give this one armor? Shouldn't, then, all lizards have armor like this one? May pasta be with you
Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people -Carl Sagan For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. -Carl Sagan
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 132 by ICANT, posted 12-25-2009 9:34 AM | | ICANT has not replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 827 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 151 of 425 (540582)
12-26-2009 2:22 PM
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Reply to: Message 140 by Peg
12-26-2009 6:10 AM
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So, do you trust paternity tests? (*hint: both use the same techniques)
But science is not the ultimate truth. Nor does it seek to be. Only religion seeks to be "the ultimate truth". But it sure does give us a hell of a lot better understanding of the world we live in.
their research into genes has shown that all people are decended from one pair and they give certain dates for when these ancestors lived but is their calculation accurate??? Can you be sure they are 100% accurate in their dates?? Rarely is anything in science 100% accurate. They could be off by a couple thousand years. Having said that, the bible is NEVER 100% accurate, yet you are not skeptical of that? I call shenanigans.
Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people -Carl Sagan For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. -Carl Sagan
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 140 by Peg, posted 12-26-2009 6:10 AM | | Peg has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 155 by Peg, posted 12-26-2009 9:07 PM | | hooah212002 has replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 827 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 159 of 425 (540621)
12-26-2009 10:08 PM
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Reply to: Message 155 by Peg
12-26-2009 9:07 PM
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Unfortunately, Peg, I am unable to find much in the way of accuracy of genetic dating. All I could find is a recent hullabaloo about ancient penguins being found to be 1-500,000 years older than previously thought. --> ancient penguins being found to be 1-500,000 years older than previously thought.
In other words, a biological specimen determined by traditional DNA testing to be 100,000 years old may actually be 200,000 to 600,000 years old, researchers suggest in a new report in Trends in Genetics, a professional journal. But what do you know? SCIENCE did what it does best and corrected itself. Edited by hooah212002, : whoops. I jumped the gun. should have cleaned it up BEFORE hitting submit Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given. Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.
Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people -Carl Sagan For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. -Carl Sagan
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 155 by Peg, posted 12-26-2009 9:07 PM | | Peg has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 165 by Peg, posted 12-26-2009 11:18 PM | | hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 827 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 271 of 425 (541237)
01-01-2010 5:14 PM
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I'm curious where the genetic studies are that show dogs and wolves to be two wholly separate kinds, as opposed to dogs being different breeds of domesticated wolves? I mean, here is a study that says otherwise (you should sign up, it might do some good. It's free!)
Sciencemag writes: Archaeological finds from Mesolithic sites around the world indicate that the dog was the first domestic animal (1). Its origin from wolves is well established from genetic as well as behavioral and morphological data (1-3), but apart from this, available clues give no clear picture of its origin. Interpretation of the archaeological record is problematic because of the difficulty in discriminating between small wolves and domestic dogs (4, 5); however, the earliest finds believed to be from domestic dogs are a single jaw from 14,000 years before the present (yr B.P.) in Germany (5, 6) and an assemblage of small canids from 12,000 yr B.P. in Israel (7, 8)
Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people -Carl Sagan For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. -Carl Sagan
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 827 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 275 of 425 (541241)
01-01-2010 5:47 PM
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What kind is this ICANT?
Dog? Wolf? Kangaroo? Tiger? It is called a Thylacine. Early European settlers in Tasmania dubbed it the marsupial wolf, kangaroo wolf, pouched wolf and native wolf, but the scientific name of thylacine is use in modern times. Early literature also calls it the opossum hyena, native hyena, dog-faced dasyurus, dog-headed opossum and zebra opossum. The names Tasmanian tiger and native tiger are also used and date back to the Dutch helmsman Jacobszoon who explored Tasmania in 1624. It was apparently a familiar sight to the crew of ships owned by the Dutch East India Company and to convicts of a penal colony created in 1803 at Derwent River. One early European observer referred to it as "a kangaroo masquerading as a wolf" and decribed it as having the head and teeth of a wolf, the stripes of a tiger, the tail of a kangaroo and the backward-opening pouch of an opossum. I just want to know where the distinction lies...... Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.
Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people -Carl Sagan For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. -Carl Sagan
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 827 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 285 of 425 (541256)
01-01-2010 8:43 PM
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Reply to: Message 283 by ICANT
01-01-2010 7:58 PM
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Re: Kind
Hi ICANT. I posted two things I'd like a response about.
Message 271 and
Message 275 I feel both are pretty substantial in light of this discussion and your response would give us all a better understanding as to what a "kind" really is (or at least a more distinct line).
Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people -Carl Sagan For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. -Carl Sagan
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 283 by ICANT, posted 01-01-2010 7:58 PM | | ICANT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 288 by ICANT, posted 01-01-2010 9:22 PM | | hooah212002 has replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 827 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 289 of 425 (541262)
01-01-2010 9:26 PM
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Reply to: Message 288 by ICANT
01-01-2010 9:22 PM
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Re: Kind
In Message 271 you quote a sciencemag article that states domestic dogs existed 12,000 years ago. It did not state but I assume the wolf existed also. Try reading the article, ICANT. It says dogs are descendants of wolves. Wolves were bred/tamed to be dogs. {ABE} I said article. It's not an article. It's a PAPER. A scientific paper published in a, accredited journal.
In Message 275 you reference an extinct carnivorous marsupial and ask me if it is a Dog? Wolf? Kangaroo? Tiger? It is none of those but was a carnivorous marsupial hybrid. I asked you WHAT KIND IS IT? Did god put a carnivorous marsupial hybrid kind on the ark? Is that a kind now Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given. Edited by hooah212002, : clarified article=journal
Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people -Carl Sagan For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. -Carl Sagan
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 288 by ICANT, posted 01-01-2010 9:22 PM | | ICANT has not replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 827 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 297 of 425 (541295)
01-02-2010 9:59 AM
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Reply to: Message 293 by Peg
01-02-2010 6:01 AM
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Re: "Kinds" do exist...
As far as Genesis and the creation is concerned, that's not where the real problem is. The problem comes in when you guys try and fit them all on the ark. Different "kinds" of wolves/dogs? Well, the same must be true for ALL animals. How do you fit them all on the ark? How do you dispute the finding in the paper I posted up thread? 1 wolf "kind" and 1 dog "kind"? Ok, then you accept evolution. Now explain how genetics have traced dog origins to wolves, as I posted upthread. Real, bonafide, scientific studies have been conducted on tracing origins of most animal lineages.
Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people -Carl Sagan For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. -Carl Sagan
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 293 by Peg, posted 01-02-2010 6:01 AM | | Peg has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 301 by ICANT, posted 01-02-2010 1:10 PM | | hooah212002 has replied | | | Message 315 by Peg, posted 01-02-2010 6:33 PM | | hooah212002 has replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 827 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 298 of 425 (541296)
01-02-2010 10:02 AM
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Reply to: Message 291 by Rahvin
01-01-2010 11:34 PM
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Re: "Kinds" do exist...
So every animal is a kind in and of itself? Pretty big friggin ark they had. Adam must have been a busy guy. Spent his entire 900 years of life just naming animals.
Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people -Carl Sagan For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. -Carl Sagan
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 291 by Rahvin, posted 01-01-2010 11:34 PM | | Rahvin has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 303 by ICANT, posted 01-02-2010 1:28 PM | | hooah212002 has replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 827 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 300 of 425 (541304)
01-02-2010 12:21 PM
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Reply to: Message 299 by ICANT
01-02-2010 12:11 PM
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Re: Kind
Which in fact have been created from a pair of domestic dogs. Wrong, ICANT. Please see my Message 271. I pointed this out already.
Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people -Carl Sagan For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. -Carl Sagan
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 299 by ICANT, posted 01-02-2010 12:11 PM | | ICANT has not replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 827 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 305 of 425 (541315)
01-02-2010 1:44 PM
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Reply to: Message 301 by ICANT
01-02-2010 1:10 PM
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Re: "Kinds" do exist...
I attempted to answer that question and it went right over you head. No, ICANT, the PAPER went right over your head.
There is: "no clear picture of its origin." Please read the whole paper.
So what is your problem with a wolf kind and a dog kind? The point of me linking this article (which you won't read thoroughly) is that wolves were domesticated to BE dogs, then bred to all the different breeds we see today. So, did god create a "wolf kind" then ancient biblical people domesticated them and god called forth these new "domestic dog kinds" aboard your mythical ark, as well as "wolf kind"? Wouldn't that be a slap in the face to god? His wolf kind wasn't good enough?
Regardless of the origin of the domestic dog he did exist 14,000 years ago according to science. So he should be able to exist today as then. Right. Now where did that domestic dog come from? A wolf? You got it.
Then I find in Genesis 1:20-25 where God called the animals, birds, fishes, etc forth after their kind. Therefore anything that pre-existed could have been called forth after its kind. The whole point of this thread is for you creo's to giveus a working definition of "kind" so we can draw a line somewhere as to what one is. You have yet to do that.
Origionally all creatures came from the ground and therefore was made out of the same thing which would create similiar things in everything. Things? What are these "things" we are all made of? Are these "things" similar to a "kind"? You still haven't properly responded to Message 275
Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people -Carl Sagan For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. -Carl Sagan
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 301 by ICANT, posted 01-02-2010 1:10 PM | | ICANT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 308 by ICANT, posted 01-02-2010 3:02 PM | | hooah212002 has replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 827 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 309 of 425 (541328)
01-02-2010 3:05 PM
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Reply to: Message 303 by ICANT
01-02-2010 1:28 PM
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Re: "Kinds" do exist...
and in it I have 18 acres of storage space and can put much more... I may not be a college grad, but WHAT? An acre is a measurement for a flat surface.
I just need a list to see if I can fit all the animals in it. Here is a pretty nice, concise listing to start off with, I think.
Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people -Carl Sagan For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. -Carl Sagan
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 303 by ICANT, posted 01-02-2010 1:28 PM | | ICANT has not replied |
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