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Author Topic:   What was God’s plan behind Creation and why does he need one?
Peg
Member (Idle past 4956 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 73 of 174 (543293)
01-17-2010 12:56 AM
Reply to: Message 72 by Larni
01-16-2010 8:57 AM


Re: If God is good, why is there evil.
Larni writes:
So I would assert and answer to the question of 'why evil?' is because you god choose to have a world where people suffer. Why? Who can say. But it seems that it was a choice by the very god you claim loves you so much.
The answer to 'why evil exists' is because mankind chooses to practice it.
When Adam chose to disobey God, he really chose not to live by Gods authority and laws. From that point onward, mankind was in charge of his own behavior and his behavior became very much like the animals around him. The reason for this is because God withdrew from him and he could no longer learn from God. Fortunately God made us with a conscience that had some built in laws that we universally accept but not everyone abides by them. ie murder, rape, stealing etc.
God does not cause earthquakes and tsunamis and volcanic eruptions...these are just all part of natures cycles. If i choose to live in an earthquake prone area, and an earthquake occurs, how is that Gods fault? It isnt, its mine.
Likewise, if i choose to live at the base of a volcano and dont leave when it begins to show signs of activity, how is that Gods fault? Its not.
Gods ultimate plan is to abolish mankinds independence and bring all of us back into harmony with his perfect laws. When he does this there will be no more disease, no more suffering, no more pain...but its up to us to accept to live under Gods direction and he makes this promise to all of us:
"With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: ‘Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away." Rev. 21:2-4.
This prophecy is being spoken in past tense because what God promises is as good as fulfilled.
Besides this, all the suffering of all the millions of people who have lived before us will be undone by one act of rectification by God....The resurrection!
Acts 24:15"and I have hope toward God, which hope these [men] themselves also entertain, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous"
So the truth of the matter is that God loves us so much that he is going to fix the world and all its problems...problems that we created. And when the world is being governed by him, the conditions on earth will be as he promises in the following scriptures:
Psalm 37:11 "But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth,
And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace"
Micah 4:3"And he will certainly render judgment among many peoples, and set matters straight respecting mighty nations far away. And they will have to beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears. They will not lift up sword, nation against nation, neither will they learn war anymore. 4And they will actually sit, each one under his vine and under his fig tree, and there will be no one making [them] tremble
Ezekeil 34:27"And the tree of the field must give its fruitage, and the land itself will give its yield, and they will actually prove to be on their soil in security. And they will have to know that I am Jehovah when I break the bars of their yoke and I have delivered them out of the hand of those who had been using them as slaves. 28And they will no longer become something to plunder for the nations; and as regards the wild beast of the earth, it will not devour them, and they will actually dwell in security, with no one to make [them] tremble "
Isaiah 33:24And no resident will say: I am sick.
Isaiah 54:13: All your sons [and daughters] will be persons taught by Jehovah, and the peace of your sons [and daughters] will be abundant.
This new world that God is working towards doesnt sound too shabby at all. It certainly doesnt leave room for evil to exist in it for what does God say will happen to all those who practice evil acts?
Psalm 37:9"For evildoers themselves will be cut off"
Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Larni, posted 01-16-2010 8:57 AM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by Larni, posted 01-17-2010 6:18 AM Peg has replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4956 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 75 of 174 (543316)
01-17-2010 7:35 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by Larni
01-17-2010 6:18 AM


Re: If God is good, why is there evil.
Larni writes:
So, I'll ask again: why did Yahweh not forgive Adam his trespass and not have to go to the bother of human misery for ever after?
Why not show a little of this vaunted love when it could have really been useful?
well thats a good question. God could have just overlooked Adams rebellion and forgiven him. But would that really have prevented suffering or would it, instead, have made God responsible for it? Think about what happens when a father overlooks the deliberate wrongdoing on the part of his children. The children often get involved in first one form of wrongdoing and then another until they are the criminals we all fear. Who is responsible for the actions of these kids then? the father is. God cannot condone any form of unrighteous acts. This is why he did not overlook their rebellion.
Larni writes:
Rather than not introduce these activities into the human behavioural array.
they are in our instincts as acts to shun...this is why those who practice such things do so secretly. Their conscience tells them its wrong, they know its wrong. They try to cover their tracts and will go to great lengths to cover their crimes. Its because we have been endowed with these laws of God. The problem is that our imperfect nature makes us ignore our conscience and do what we know is wong. And thats not Gods fault, its our own.
Larni writes:
But hang on. What happens to free will if mankind's independence is abolished? If this is the case that he is not bothered by mankind's independence why bother with it in the first place.
independence was never a part of Gods purpose for us. We were and are completely dependent upon him for life. Adam and Eve only died because they became independent. They effectively cut themselves off from their life source.
Independence means that we choose for ourselves what is right and wrong. That is exactly what happened in the Garden of Eden. Eve was told by the serpent (Satan) that:
‘You positively will not die. For God knows that in the very day of your eating from it your eyes are bound to be opened and you are bound to be like God, knowing good and bad.
what he really meant was that if you eat from the tree you'll be like God and be able to make your own decisions as to what is good and what is bad. The result is as we see today...some people think its ok to kill, others to rape, others to cheat on their marriage mates, others to have sex with children, others to steal from the poor, others to fly planes into buildings and set off bombs and the list goes on and on.
this is independence...we have it and it seems that its not something you like too much because you think the suffering we endure is not a good thing. We cannot live peacfully while everyone chooses to live the way they want and behave the way they want.
Obeying Gods laws does not mean that we loose our free will. Adam and Eve still had free will before they had independence, thats why they could choose to do wrong. But Gods laws will bring relief from all the terrible things that happen in the world which is why i am more then happy to be dependent on God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by Larni, posted 01-17-2010 6:18 AM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by Larni, posted 01-17-2010 11:33 AM Peg has replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4956 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 77 of 174 (543439)
01-18-2010 4:58 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by Larni
01-17-2010 11:33 AM


Re: If God is good, why is there evil.
Its seems that you really arnt looking for answers to these questions. You've made up your mind and you are sticking to it.
If you really want to question God over such things, you can. And his reply is found in the verses of scripture that I posted but I notice you did not comment on any of those verses which tells me that you are not really interested in allowing God to provide his defence.
So you've effectively sentenced and charged him without hearing his defence. I hope i never meet you in a court of law lol.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by Larni, posted 01-17-2010 11:33 AM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by Larni, posted 01-18-2010 6:03 AM Peg has replied
 Message 84 by Blue Jay, posted 01-18-2010 2:55 PM Peg has replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4956 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 85 of 174 (543526)
01-19-2010 12:40 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by Larni
01-18-2010 6:03 AM


Re: If God is good, why is there evil.
Larni writes:
I ask why god chose to punish us for one man's sin
He didnt choose to punish us.
the world we have today is the direct consequence of being independent of God. He didnt choose our independence, Adam & Eve did.
But in saying that, what God did do was promise to send someone into the world who could redeem mankind from independence. In genesis we read 3:14=15
"God proceeded to say to the serpent: ...And I shall put enmity between you and the woman and between your seed and her seed. He will bruise you in the head and you will bruise him in the heel.
So God wasted no time in putting a plan into place to ensure that the one who was behind the rebellion (Satan) was going to be put to death by a 'bruise to the head'
This promised 'seed' is the one who was spoken of to Abraham at Genesis 22:18 "And by means of your seed all nations of the earth will certainly bless themselves due to the fact that you have listened to my voice.
Then 2 thousand years later the seed arrived, Jesus. He opened the way for all the nations to learn about God and his purpose and his plan to redeem them from death. Christianity has been preparing people to live by means of Gods laws and to desist from living independently of God.
So far from enginerring the situation or punishing people, God has been patiently gathering them and teaching them because his plan is to redeem them from the situation we are in.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by Larni, posted 01-18-2010 6:03 AM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by Larni, posted 01-19-2010 3:55 AM Peg has not replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4956 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 86 of 174 (543527)
01-19-2010 12:56 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by Blue Jay
01-18-2010 2:55 PM


Re: If God is good, why is there evil.
the topic has certainly gone off on a tangent then because the the question i was answering was 'If God is good, why is there evil'
i didnt ask that question, i merely provided an answer to it.
My apologies.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by Blue Jay, posted 01-18-2010 2:55 PM Blue Jay has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by Larni, posted 01-19-2010 3:59 AM Peg has not replied

  
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