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Author Topic:   How did round planets form from the explosion of the Big Bang?
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 310 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 12 of 156 (542029)
01-07-2010 10:15 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Aptera
01-06-2010 2:32 PM


First, where did this come from? I know a lot of evolutionists do not believe in eternity, but matter cannot be created or destroyed, so where did this come from?
Matter can be created --- from energy (indeed, one might think of matter as frozen energy).
Now, you might ask what was the origin of the energy. That's an interesting question. One possible answer suggested by the inflationary hypothesis is that the net energy of the universe is zero.
Next, why/how did this material spontaneously explode?
The simplest solutions to the equations that describe gravity (i.e. Einstein's equations of general relativity) require that the universe should either be expanding or shrinking. We happen to live in one which is expanding.
How did round planets form?
Further to what other people have said, it's actually part of the definition of a planet that it should have enough gravity to make itself round. By a recent resolution of the International Astronomers' Union:
The IAU therefore resolves that planets and other bodies in our Solar System, except satellites, be defined into three distinct categories in the following way:
(1) A "planet" is a celestial body that: (a) is in orbit around the Sun, (b) has sufficient mass for its self-gravity to overcome rigid body forces so that it assumes a hydrostatic equilibrium (nearly round) shape, and (c) has cleared the neighbourhood around its orbit.
Normally when something explodes, it is not round. Rock is denser than the gases in our atmosphere, is it not? So, assuming we have an explosion with sufficient material and conditions to create round planets, wouldn't there be a gas "bubble" near the source of the explosion?
It's hard to see what sort of confusion of ideas could lead someone to ask such a question.
For now, let me point out that it was not an explosion and that it doesn't have a source.
One analogy commonly used is that of blowing up a balloon. Imagine the two-dimensional surface of the balloon as an analog to our three-dimensional space. Points on the surface of the balloon get further away from one another, but there is no point on the surface of the balloon that can be considered the center of the expansion --- or, alternatively, any point on the surface of the balloon could be so regarded.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by cavediver, posted 01-07-2010 12:42 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 310 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 21 of 156 (542169)
01-08-2010 2:35 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Aptera
01-06-2010 2:32 PM


More About Why Planets Are Round
I was reading just the other day (I forget the reference, I'd have made a note of it if I'd known I would be participating in this thread) how the Earth can't possibly have mountains greater than a certain height (I think it was twelve miles).
The point is that under sufficient stress rock will squash like plasticine. You can see this in the photograph below, which shows the effect of stress on cylinders of marble under various confining pressures.
Rock that's buried under twelve miles of rock is under a lot of stress. Apparently, a mountain taller than twelve miles, under Earth gravity, would squish itself flatter than twelve miles high.
I might have misremembered, it might be twelve kilometers, but you get the point.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 310 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 23 of 156 (542179)
01-08-2010 5:15 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by cavediver
01-07-2010 12:42 PM


Arghhh
What do you need to add to the ocean to get waves? Energy! Does this mean that waves are made of energy? No! Ocean without waves, and ocean with waves are both just made of the ocean.
Energy can excite a matter field from a ground state (no matter) to a higher level state (matter). But both 'no matter' and 'matter' are the same thing: different states of the matter field.
I don't quite understand what you're trying to tell me. I said that matter is a form of energy --- on that I think we are in agreement.
Perhaps you object to my use of the word "frozen". But all I meant by it was that, intuitively, matter coagulated out of the energy of the Big Bang when the energy density was low enough. I didn't mean to mislead anyone --- but is this not a good metaphor? If not, why not?

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 Message 25 by cavediver, posted 01-08-2010 8:46 AM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 310 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 87 of 156 (543662)
01-20-2010 4:52 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by cavediver
01-08-2010 8:46 AM


No, definitely not. That's like saying a compressed spring is a form of energy.
I think I see what you mean.
Is this right? ---
Matter is not energy.
Mass is energy.
If I'm right, please tell me what this means.

This message is a reply to:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 310 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 122 of 156 (545742)
02-05-2010 5:04 AM
Reply to: Message 121 by Sasuke
02-05-2010 4:42 AM


Actually energy can be a force.
The world does not contain a big enough face or a big enough palm.
For one thing, energy and force are measured in incompatible units. You might as well argue that "speed can be a distance".
Read the first line of that link you provided.
Read it yourself. Note that it does not equate force with energy.
Acceleration does attribute to kinetic, gravitational, and even electromagnetic energy.
That's not even English, much less physics.
A rock falling is a perfect example of how force is in fact a form of energy.
Why would anyone even think that?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by Sasuke, posted 02-05-2010 4:42 AM Sasuke has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by Sasuke, posted 02-05-2010 5:10 AM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 310 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 129 of 156 (545900)
02-06-2010 4:17 AM
Reply to: Message 123 by Sasuke
02-05-2010 5:10 AM


Force is acceleration.
Wrong.
Units of force: kg m s-2
Units of acceleration: m s-2
Acceleration is momentum.
Wrong.
Units of acceleration: m s-2
Units of momentum: m s-1
Momentum is potential energy.
Wrong.
Units of momentum: kg m s-1
Units of energy: kg m2 s-2
Potential energy is energy.
Right.
Apart from that, you might as well be sitting there saying: "Distance is speed. Speed is time. Time is acceleration" for all the sense you're making.
Example, A rock falls to earth and crashes.
What is that meant to be an example of? A non sequitur?
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by Sasuke, posted 02-05-2010 5:10 AM Sasuke has replied

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 310 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 144 of 156 (563466)
06-05-2010 2:04 AM
Reply to: Message 143 by Asking
06-04-2010 7:44 PM


What has this to do with evolution?
Nothing, which is why it's in the "Big Bang and Cosmology" forum.
It does, however, have something to do with creationism, since evolution isn't the only thing creationists are wrong about.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 310 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 148 of 156 (613537)
04-26-2011 12:14 AM
Reply to: Message 147 by Alfred Maddenstein
04-25-2011 11:16 PM


A couple of additions to your vocabulary.
Firstly, the word "egg" refers to one of these things:
Secondly, if someone was call you (for example) a deluded windbag with delusions of intelligence, that would not be an ad hominem argument. That would be an insult.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 04-25-2011 11:16 PM Alfred Maddenstein has replied

Replies to this message:
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