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Author Topic:   Quick Questions, Short Answers - No Debate
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3671 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 79 of 341 (615963)
05-18-2011 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by crashfrog
05-16-2011 7:47 PM


Re: Propulsion in the vacuum of space
Space propulsion has nothing to do with gases being pushed off of anything, or pushing on anything.
Almost. Change the "nothing" to "everything" and you've got it
This is a classic case of taking the debunking of a fallacy too far. The original fallacy is thinking that the exhaust gases push against the ground at take off, generating the upward thrust. But in dismissing this erroneous idea, the correct situation of the exhaust gases interacting with the walls of the combustion chamber seems to have been dismissed as well.
The obvious picture to visualise is a small rocket sat in zero-g inside the combustion chamber of a much larger rocket. The small rocket fires. Observed from a distance, the large rocket will seen to be expelling exhaust gases, yet will not move. It will only accelerate once the small rocket impacts on the larger combustion chamber.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by crashfrog, posted 05-16-2011 7:47 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by crashfrog, posted 05-18-2011 11:01 PM cavediver has replied

cavediver
Member (Idle past 3671 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 82 of 341 (616041)
05-19-2011 4:57 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by crashfrog
05-18-2011 11:01 PM


Re: Propulsion in the vacuum of space
Or would it move simply as a function of the fuel and oxidizer it was spraying out, with the energy of combustion lost?
Essentially, yes. There will also be some propulsion from the impact of the combustion gases on the rear of the ship. Think of the Orion spacecraft design, which ejects H-bombs out the rear, detonates them, and rides the shock-wave.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by crashfrog, posted 05-18-2011 11:01 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by crashfrog, posted 05-19-2011 9:15 AM cavediver has replied

cavediver
Member (Idle past 3671 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 86 of 341 (616073)
05-19-2011 10:17 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by crashfrog
05-19-2011 9:15 AM


Re: Propulsion in the vacuum of space
It's not a shock-wave but a "shock-wave" The interplanetary gases are too tenuous to be of interest here, so we are merely looking at the constituents of the bomb flying apart and imparting their kinetic energy to the back of the Orion blast plate. So I guess it makes sense to surround each bomb with a decent amount of "working fluid" that can transmit the explosion energy to the space-craft.
We do get real shock-waves in space: the termination shock in the heliosphere being an obvious one, where the solar wind is impacting the interstellar medium.

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cavediver
Member (Idle past 3671 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 118 of 341 (633330)
09-13-2011 4:01 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by Dr Adequate
09-13-2011 12:55 AM


Re: So ...
What time is it at the North Pole?
2 hours ahead of the South Pole, so it can't be too hard to work it out...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-13-2011 12:55 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

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