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Author Topic:   abiogenesis
Stephen5
Member (Idle past 5155 days)
Posts: 6
From: USA
Joined: 02-14-2010


Message 126 of 177 (546873)
02-14-2010 4:33 PM


Please, no replies to this message. It is a cut-n-paste of http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?showtopic=23789&.... --Admin
Does the Bible answer questions related to the existence of the earth, its creation, its purpose, its place in the material universe, its past, and future ?
Yes it does, but it takes time and effort on the part of the believer to study, ponder, and understand a wide range of the scriptures and their correct applications in order to grasp what the Lord is telling us.
The most advanced students of His Word realize that He has not revealed everything to them and that acceptance of this truth will produce a more accurate understanding of some subjects.
He tells us that in the beginning He created the heavens and the earth. We are not told when or exactly how this was done. We know by observation that these things exist because we can detect them with our senses.
There has been much controversy about when and how He created the material universe and observable life forms, particularly humans of our kind who have been created in His image.
This is primarily because of the credibility factor and questions arising from the apparent inconsistencies of what the Bible says and what humans think they observe by discoveries and evaluations of the material world.
Several positions have developed over time for the purpose of either proving or disproving the validity of the Bible as an accurate record of the past, present, and future in regard to the material universe and related life forms.
The positions range from a total rejection of the Bible as truth choosing to rely upon scientific discovery and observation to total reliance on the Bible as the Word of God and authority on creation.
I will address the apparent disparity between the Biblical account of creation, genealogical time inconsistencies, and related observations of the material world.
There are a number of approaches that deal with these issues and at least three significant ones.
The first is that the heavens and earth are very old and the Lord has used an evolutionary process of creation which has taken a very long time to reach the level of human kind.
The attempt here is to extend the six creation days in Genesis into long immeasurable lengths of time.
Creation and evolution continue during each of the six periods. Human evolution then becomes the end result which occurred about 6,000 years ago.
Proponents blend evolutionary processes to account for a very old earth and the recent appearance of humans of our kind to fit the biblical genealogical time frame of about 6,000 years for human existence.
A second theory proposes that the heavens and the earth are in fact very young and only about 6,000 to 10,000 years old. Much is done to refute modern scientific methods and evaluations in order to prove this.
If true, then there is no need to make reconciliation for the time differences between the observed apparent age of the universe and the human genealogical record in the Bible.
I would suggest that neither of these theories give adequate understanding of the Biblical account of creation and related observations made through discovery and analysis.
They are both self limiting and do not provide the best presentations for supporting the Genesis record of creation.
The first theory ignores the literal 24 hour day indicated by the rotation of the earth and the life form "kind after kind" process.
There is also a tendency to support or compromise with the pure theory of evolution which does not include a creator.
There is no need for compromise on this issue in order to support the Bible's picture of creation. Genesis clearly tells us that the Lord used six 24 hour days to do His work.
There is also clear explanation that distinct life forms were created separately and that they reproduce in kind, not by evolution from one species to another.
The second theory limits His creative time frame to only a few thousand years with no indication of any previous knowledge of His existence or actions.
Attempts are also made to prove scientifically that the earth and universe are very young and this is an exercise in futility.
What was the Lord doing before 6,000 years ago ? Did He sit around for billions of years doing nothing and then start His process of creating the universe ?
In the beginning He created the heavens and the earth "together".... at the same time. Genesis 1:1 states this fact.
Our solar system's components were created in the beginning and were not later additions to the universe. Neither was the earth created first with the other components like our sun and moon added later.
We know today that the earth's orbit is dependent upon the existence of the sun's gravitational attraction, not the other way around.
The earth was obviously present in Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. To say that the Lord then created and added the sun and moon next is absurd.
One must use common sense and allow for guidance of His Holy Spirit in the process of interpreting His Word.
Those who manipulate scriptures in order to support their unique interpretations of the Bible cause one to question their credibility.
The heavens and earth are in fact very old by observation and by evaluation through at least a few proven physical laws like the speed of light. Even our own solar system has the visible markings of age, degeneration, and judgment.
We have evidence today that planets close to the earth once had environments like the earth. Now they are desolate and uninhabitable. What happened to them and when ?
There is a third view of these issues which I consider to be much more correct and convincing with no need to compromise, twist, or deceive. The Lord's Word is totally true, complete, and reliable when understood properly.
There is not a great deal of scriptural information addressing this subject, but there is enough to grasp an understanding that makes sense.
Not everything in the Bible can be proven by human intellect and observation and must be accepted on faith.
Genesis chapter 1:1 indicates that the Lord created the heavens and the earth in the beginning. This opening statement tells us that He exists and that He created the heavens and the earth in the beginning.
There is a summary of His creating and forming activities in Genesis that includes the beginning, reconditioning of the earth, creation of replacement life forms, and creation of humans in His own image. [Genesis 2:1-8]
This summary is a recap of how the heavens and the earth came into existence and the generations or phases of His actions.
The "day" (time) in which the Lord "created" is not just one day, but the times and generations of His creative and forming acts. [Genesis 2:4]
These included those in the beginning and those about 6,000 years ago. Humans were His final act of creation for this present generation.
He will renovate and create again after this present age of man's rule of the earth comes to an end. [2Peter 3:10; Revelation 20, 21]
We are not told when the beginning of His creative acts took place. There is substantial evidence in scripture that satan and the fallen angels rebelled against Him sometime between the beginning of creation and Genesis 1:2.
We can only speculate as to what was going on during the time from the beginning and Genesis 1:2.
The Lord created the angels first and then the material universe and other life forms. We know this because all things were created by Him and the angels observed His creative acts. [Job 38:4-7]
One third of the angels followed satan in rebellion against the Lord sometime between the beginning of creation and 6,000 years ago. Satan and his angels will be cast and confined to the earth at the end of this present age. [Revelation 12:4-9]
Satan's rebellion, sin, and the presence of evil were all operative before the reconditioning of the earth and subsequent creation of humans.
Sin entered the human race through Adam as a result of the choice to disobey the Lord's advice and that we must reject the idea of separating from His providence, direction, and trusting relationship. [Genesis 2:6-17]
There are significant references available to us in scripture and the physical observation of the material world regarding these issues which can enhance our understanding of Biblical truths about creation.
The earth is the only inhabitable planet in our solar system for life forms that we know of from recent observation. Environments for life support do not exist on any of the other planets.
We find that there is much evidence of death, decay, and destruction of very old life forms buried beneath the earth's surface.
Large reptilian creatures have been found that existed before humans of our kind were created. There is no record of the existence of these creatures in scripture.
Their huge size and the impact they would have had on humanity would be there for sure. One should conclude that these creatures existed before Genesis 1:2.
We can also observe an apparent long term decadent entropic decline of life forms from the fossil remains of these creatures and many others.
This decline was part of their life cycle and this is different than what one would expect of the Lord's original creation. Something motivated Him to cause this process of entropy and death to operate in His universe.
There is also an apparent desire by the Lord to create new heavens and an earth in the future which will be eternally perfect. This change will involve a return to the conditions of His original and perfect creation. [Romans 8:18-22; Revelation 21]
The original creation was balanced, stable, and perfected. For example we are told that satan was created perfect in every way. [Ezekiel 28:12-19]
One can then conclude from this that the rebellion of satan and one third of the angels resulted in the Lord's judgment and subsequent decline of the original creation.
It does appear to us that the other planets and moons in our solar system had environments similar to the earth in the distant past.
If the earth is the same age as the others and all were created in the beginning before Genesis 1:2, then one could speculate that satan's fall resulted in the Lord's widespread judgment of the material universe.
This would bring us to Genesis 1:2 and the following reconditioning of the earth for the habitation of living life forms, with no similar adjustments to any of the other planets and moons.
Genesis 1:2 opens with an earth that is void of all living life forms and has experienced significant upheaval and destruction. One should ponder this and view the Lord's actions from the perspective of being located on the earth.
We could speculate that the Lord's initial phase of the judgment process was to freeze the earth and cover it with ice. This would explain the "ice age" that we have observed. All life forms on the earth were destroyed in the process.
A warming of the earth would then produce the water cover [waters below] and the water vapor [waters above] as described in Genesis. The earth is described as being desolated and totally covered with surface waters.
The space immediately above the waters is saturated with thick water vapors (dense clouds). There is no visibility, everything was in total darkness on the earth.
The sun, moon, earth's solar system, and universe were present, but these could not be seen from the earth. They were created in the beginning long before Genesis 1:2 and were made visible again from the earth by the Lord's reconditioning actions.
The time is about 6,000 years ago and He moved rapidly to prepare the desolated earth for the habitation of life forms including the initial introduction of humans of our kind. [Genesis 1:2]
His actions begin in Genesis 1:3. He dissipates enough of the cloud mass (waters above) above the surface waters so that a faint glow of light coming from the sun can be seen.
The statement "let there be light" is not a creative act, but the result of the dissipation process.
Light was created in the beginning when He created the heavens and the earth, but obscured by the conditions of judgment.
The dissipation process allowed for one to observe day and night because of the rotation of the earth and enough light from the sun.
He then separated the waters above from the waters below and formed the atmosphere between them. This was necessary for the support of the new life forms that were to come.
Next He caused the surface waters on the earth to recede to the extent that dry land appeared in various areas.
Natural vegetation seed that already existed in the earth began to grow and reproduce at an accelerated rate.
Further dissipation of the atmospheric cloud mass allowed for observation of the sun, moon, and stars from the earth. He made these to be lights appearing in the atmosphere by observation from the earth's surface and for distinct purposes.
He created them in the beginning long before 6,000 years ago, but made them appear and function for the reconditioned earth.
Next He created new life forms to replace those destroyed by His former judgment of the earth. These were distinctly different creatures who multiply only in kind and in distinct habitations. They are very much like the ones living on the earth today.
Earlier life forms that existed prior to the Lord's judgment of the earth were similar but also included creatures that He did not replace.
Edited by Admin, : Add note.

Stephen5
Member (Idle past 5155 days)
Posts: 6
From: USA
Joined: 02-14-2010


Message 127 of 177 (546875)
02-14-2010 4:39 PM


Please, no replies to this message. It is a cut-n-paste of http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?showtopic=23789&.... --Admin
Continued .....
Evidence of these extinct life forms are found in the fossil discoveries today like large reptilian creatures.
Dinosaurs existed before Genesis 1:2 and they were not replaced by the Lord when He created the new life forms recorded in Genesis 1:20-26.
Claims have been made in modern times that some of these still exist, but they are not convincing.
There has been speculation that two creatures described in the book of Job are dinosaurs which coexisted with humans and lived in Job's day.
Careful analysis of behemoth and leviathan as they are described leads to a very different conclusion. [Job 40:15-24, 41:1-34]
The first one is the manatee, or dugong, and the second one is the legendary crocodile. Neither of these should be confused with the dinosaurs of the pre-Adamite earth.
Manatees are aquatic air breathing mammals who spend much of their time eating marsh and under water grasses. The Biblical description says that behemoth eats grass like the ox.
The manatee has a very large unique tail which can rotate in any direction and is used to propel it through the water.
The design of the tail, very strong diaphragm muscles, and sensitive snout feelers used for detection in searching for food are described in scripture.
The creature's rear appendages are merged together internally to form its multi-directional tail. This provides the power and flexibility for the large manatee to move through the water at amazing speed.
Movement of the tail is much like the movement of a large tree swaying in the wind. The statement "it moves its tail like a cedar" is used to describe this action.
They have large thick tails. The largest manatee on record in modern times is about 3,500 pounds.
This creature also has the densest bones of any other known animal. The bones have no marrow and are exceptionally strong.
The bones are so dense and thick that when the manatee expounds enough air from its lungs, it sinks immediately to the bottom of the water like a submarine. This bone structure is described in Scripture.
The Manatee has a very humble spirit and is described in contrast to leviathan who is mean spirited and aggressive.
Behemoth's temperament is described as the "chief ways of the Lord", or primary and receptive behavior. Leviathan displays the opposite trait of His latent wrath.
Manatees inhabited costal waters of the Red Sea, Persian Gulf, and associated river systems like the Jordan in Job's day. This is the Biblical description of the manatee (dugong, sea cow).
The description of leviathan is a dead ringer for the crocodile. This creature has both a larger pre-Adamite fossil record and a more recent smaller version which is described in the book of Job.
Even the smaller version of this obnoxious reptilian is extremely dangerous and highly implacable.
They are at the top of the food chain and known for their fearless aggressive behavior. The Bible's description is accurate and appropriate.
The sparks, fire, and smoke that proceed from his mouth are symbolic of his great wrath when he is in attack mode. He does not actually produce the sparks, fire, and smoke, but one might think so if ever confronted by this killing machine.
The crocodile's angry, relentless, and sudden attack is very much like the Lord's wrath in judgment which is often described with symbolic fire and brimstone.
The Lord's final act associated with the reconditioning of the earth about 6,000 years ago was the creation of human kind. We are distinctly different from all of the other living creatures including the angelic beings.
We are spirits with physical bodies created in His own image. No other beings of his creation have this distinction.
His extend plans and purposes for the human are eternal and future from the present. We are creatures with independent wills and must choose our ultimate destiny.
The first humans of our kind were Adam and Eve, and the Lord placed them in a special place on earth called the garden of Eden where they enjoyed the His presence.
There is also another garden of Eden associated with mountain of the Lord [the symbol of His government], and the garden is His perfect universe
Adam and Eve knew that he created them and at first they obeyed His perfect direction and providence for living in harmony with His creation and associated environment.
It is not known today exactly where the garden of Eden on the earth was located, but there is a convergence of four rivers recorded in Genesis that apparently flowed from the area.
They are the Pison, Gihon, Hiddekel [Tigris], and Euphrates. The last two of these rivers flow south and east from northeastern Turkey, and northern Iraq. [Genesis 10:2-14]
It is believed that the Pison flowed southward toward Arabia and the Gihon flowed northward toward the original Asian branch of the land of Cush [northern Iraq].
There is possible identification of these other two rivers today, although there are more than four rivers in the area and Noah's flood may have adjusted their courses.
This area is also close to Noah's landing on the mountains of Ararat after the Lord's judgment of the flood approximately 1,000 years later.
The Euphrates is the river that will dry up at the time of the end of this present age to make way for the armies of the kings of the east headed for the battle of Armageddon. [Revelation 16:12]
It is significant to note that the focus of the Bible prophecies just prior to the second advent of the Lord is in the area where human existence began and continued just after the flood. [Genesis 10:1-11; 11:1-9]
I believe that this same area today is well worth watching by the student of Bible prophecy as related to the coming time of the end of this present age. [Psalms 83; Isaiah 11; Jeremiah 30; Ezekiel 36,37,38,39; Daniel 2:31-45; 7:7-27; 8:9; 11:36-45; 12:1-7; Micah4; 5; Zechariah 14; Luke 21]
Much of the far distant history of the earth, our solar system, and Lord's endless universe is not revealed in scripture. There are only a few direct insights given and the rest has to be contemplated by the reader.
One can formulate a broader picture by deductive reason and indirect application of scriptural texts under the guidance of His Holy Spirit. We must also realize that there is much the Lord has not and does not reveal to us at this time.
If one considers that His original creation was perfect and complete in every way, then one must ponder why it is not so now. What would have caused Him to set His creation on a course of entropy, decay, and death ?
Edited by Admin, : Add note.

Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by Admin, posted 02-14-2010 6:05 PM Stephen5 has not replied

Stephen5
Member (Idle past 5155 days)
Posts: 6
From: USA
Joined: 02-14-2010


Message 129 of 177 (546894)
02-14-2010 6:18 PM


This is my own writing and from my own website .... under the subject "The Big Picture"
Truth Files
I see no reason to re-write what I have already composed after years of study .... I would say the same thing again
I do see others who have their own extensive writings on your forum, but apparently you are biased toward certain posters
I thought your forum was one for public expression and freedom to speak as one is committed
Apparently it is not
If this is your selected rule for me, then I will no longer post on your forum
Thank you
Stephen

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by Admin, posted 02-14-2010 6:36 PM Stephen5 has not replied

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