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Author Topic:   What is Supernatural?
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 71 of 230 (545163)
02-01-2010 11:31 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by MatterWave
01-30-2010 6:20 PM


What is not supernatural??
Frogs. Potato chips. Blimps. Nose-jewelery. Microwave ovens. Whooping cough. Tapirs. Fondue. Gravel.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by MatterWave, posted 01-30-2010 6:20 PM MatterWave has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by onifre, posted 02-02-2010 12:55 AM Dr Adequate has not replied
 Message 73 by MatterWave, posted 02-02-2010 5:19 AM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 77 of 230 (545195)
02-02-2010 7:03 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by MatterWave
02-02-2010 5:19 AM


These objects are what is observed and easily explained by us. But how do you explain the ability to explain? What does it mean to know and to understand, really(which is what you are employing in making your statement above)? You don't really know how it works ...
Speak for yourself --- it's not me that's asking all the silly questions.
... so why the leap of faith?
It does not in fact require a "leap of faith" to conclude that nose jewelery is not supernatural. It just requires a total absence of supernatural nose jewelery.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by MatterWave, posted 02-02-2010 5:19 AM MatterWave has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by MatterWave, posted 02-02-2010 7:40 AM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 92 of 230 (545268)
02-02-2010 5:58 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by MatterWave
02-02-2010 7:40 AM


That you cannot understand the questions doesn't mean they are silly. It just means that you don't comprehend the meaning implied.
Your fantasies about what I comprehend are inaccurate.
And the presence of nose jewelery is natural because... what? Because it's natural? Sounds exactly like circular reasoning. Do you have an argument that is not circular?
Yes. Nose jewelery is not supernatural because there is no evidence that it contravenes the laws of nature.
Nose jewelery and everything else can just as easily be supernatural(i.e. created by a god).
I dare say a god could produce nose jewelery by a miracle, but I see no evidence that a god has ever done so.
God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c. 1150
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by MatterWave, posted 02-02-2010 7:40 AM MatterWave has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by MatterWave, posted 02-02-2010 6:08 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 94 of 230 (545273)
02-02-2010 6:26 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by MatterWave
02-02-2010 6:08 PM


So a god that does not break the laws of nature is what? Natural God? Where did i say or imply a god has to break the laws of nature? On the contrary - my question was specifically targeting the possibility that the existence of anything might be supernatural and require a god.
Your point is obscure. To be supernatural, a thing has to contravene the laws of nature.
Aha, so you assume that the existence of jewelery or anything else is not supernatural and does not require god.
No. This is why I said no such thing.
Great, but that is an assumption. If you make too many assumptions, you'll be living in your fantasy.
Since you invent opinions and assumptions for me which I do not hold, you are definitely living in a fantasy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by MatterWave, posted 02-02-2010 6:08 PM MatterWave has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by MatterWave, posted 02-03-2010 4:50 AM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 103 of 230 (545335)
02-03-2010 7:43 AM
Reply to: Message 100 by MatterWave
02-03-2010 4:50 AM


So a god that is behind the existence of everything and that doesn't break his own laws is natural. I have no objection to that as it was actually my point that we cannot know if existence is natural or supernatural. It can be both, depending if God exists or not.
You appear to be trying to redefine the definition of words depending on the correctness of your personal theological opinions.
This would be stupid.
You said jewelery was natural and obviously implicitly made the assumption that existence of said jewelery or whatever is natural(not created by a God).
But no "assumption" exists. I say that I have no evidence that any nose-jewelery contravenes the laws of nature. Therefore I provisionally class nose-jewelery as natural. Show me evidence to the contrary.
When you get too indocrinated into a belief, it's quite common to lose track of the assumptions you are making.
And when a person is too stupid or too wrong to argue against what I am actually saying, it's quite common for them to retreat into an insane halfwitted fantasy world in which they make up some ludicrous fantasy about what I'm saying and then try to argue against their idiotic fantasy about my beliefs which they've made up in their crazy little minds because they are too stupid and pathetic and wrong to argue against anything that I have actually said.
Now, given that we apparently disagree about what I think, which is more likely:
(1) I know what my opinions are, and you don't.
(2) You know what my opinions are, and I don't.
Think about this carefully, because if you go for option (2) you are mentally ill and should seek psychiatric help.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by MatterWave, posted 02-03-2010 4:50 AM MatterWave has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 107 of 230 (545344)
02-03-2010 8:55 AM
Reply to: Message 99 by Larni
02-03-2010 3:55 AM


My question is why do you ascribe to if (miracle happens) then (Yawheh is responsible)? You a priori rule out any other cause.
This, I think, is very pertinent.
I think slevesque's point is clear enough. If someone goes around raising the dead and healing the blind and so forth, and if that person attributes his powers to Yahweh, then we'd need a darn good reason to say that his powers had some other cause.
Slevesque is not asserting that we should take the premises as true. If I understand him, he's just asserting that if the two premises were true, then in default of contrary evidence we should accept the conclusion.
Perhaps I have misunderstood slevesque's point, in which case I'm sure that he'll say so.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 207 of 230 (545989)
02-07-2010 2:39 AM
Reply to: Message 199 by ICANT
02-05-2010 5:31 PM


Re: Existence
Why do I need to provide evidence for an "IF" statement?
Because it might be completely untrue.
Suppose you said: "IF my username is IAMWRONGABOUTEVERYTHING, then all pigs have wings".
People would call you on that, of course. They'd point out that your premise is wrong, and your conclusion is wrong, and your logic is wrong ... and then you could get on your highest of all horses and ask: "Why do I need to provide evidence for an "IF" statement?"
You need at the very least to provide a genuine logical connection between the "if" clause and the "then" clause.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 199 by ICANT, posted 02-05-2010 5:31 PM ICANT has not replied

  
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