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# Size of the universe

Author Topic:   Size of the universe
NoNukes
Inactive Member

 Message 39 of 248 (583957) 09-29-2010 3:50 PM Reply to: Message 35 by creationliberty09-29-2010 10:19 AM

Re: Distance of the Universe is Unknown
creationliberty writes:
All the calculations made about the distance of the universe relies heavily on the speed of light being a constant (without a constant, how can you measure anything)
Nonsense. The distance measurements to distant objects in the universe generally use methods that are independent of the speed of light. In fact the Hubble 'constant' is actually calculated by measuring redshift (the size of which does depend on the speed of light) against distances measurements which do not depend on the speed of light.
If your real issue is with red shift, I think you are attacking the wrong aspect of cosmology. Red shift is evidence that the universe is expanding and that rate of expansion is increasing.
Here's that link again describing stellar distance measurement techniques.

 This message is a reply to: Message 35 by creationliberty, posted 09-29-2010 10:19 AM creationliberty has not replied

NoNukes
Inactive Member

 Message 103 of 248 (603822) 02-07-2011 8:55 PM Reply to: Message 101 by cavediver01-16-2011 12:27 PM

Re: The void
cavediver writes:
Every 2-sphere has an "inside" - but mathematically, and when we are talking about the geometry/topology of space-time, this need not be the case.
Perhaps a key thing to remember that the 2-sphere represents a two dimensional curved space. An extra dimension that would move you within or without the sphere is not perceptible to a 2-dimensional being. I wouldn't say that a 2-sphere has an inside.
In a flat two dimensional space, it's easier for most folks to accept that questions about what's going on above and below the flat plane have no meaning. You have to treat the 2-sphere in a similar fashion.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

 This message is a reply to: Message 101 by cavediver, posted 01-16-2011 12:27 PM cavediver has replied

 Replies to this message: Message 104 by cavediver, posted 02-08-2011 6:24 AM NoNukes has replied

NoNukes
Inactive Member

 Message 105 of 248 (603864) 02-08-2011 11:51 AM Reply to: Message 104 by cavediver02-08-2011 6:24 AM

Re: The void
"Nor would I except when you quote-mine me"
It wasn't meant to be a quote mine. I just wanted to help others who are having trouble understanding what a two-sphere is.
Edited by NoNukes, : Lighten up the tone a bit.

 This message is a reply to: Message 104 by cavediver, posted 02-08-2011 6:24 AM cavediver has not replied

NoNukes
Inactive Member

 Message 158 of 248 (668645) 07-23-2012 12:48 PM Reply to: Message 157 by Dogmafood07-23-2012 12:02 PM

I guess what I am really looking for is the median.
I'm pretty sure you don't want the median either. When there are only two numbers the median is the same as the mean.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison

 This message is a reply to: Message 157 by Dogmafood, posted 07-23-2012 12:02 PM Dogmafood has replied

 Replies to this message: Message 159 by Dogmafood, posted 07-23-2012 2:04 PM NoNukes has replied

NoNukes
Inactive Member

 Message 161 of 248 (668700) 07-23-2012 6:59 PM Reply to: Message 160 by New Cat's Eye07-23-2012 2:07 PM

e're talking about 61 total exponents, so the mid-point would be at 30.5 point away from -35, so that'd be -4.5.
On a log based scale, that would be correct.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison

 This message is a reply to: Message 160 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-23-2012 2:07 PM New Cat's Eye has seen this message but not replied

NoNukes
Inactive Member

 Message 162 of 248 (668784) 07-24-2012 12:59 PM Reply to: Message 159 by Dogmafood07-23-2012 2:04 PM

If there were a ruler with the Plank length at one end and the size of the observable universe at the other end, where would the middle be?
The Plank length would for practical purposes be at the zero end of the stick. The middle would be at half of the observable size of the universe as Dr. A has suggested.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison

 This message is a reply to: Message 159 by Dogmafood, posted 07-23-2012 2:04 PM Dogmafood has replied

 Replies to this message: Message 163 by Dogmafood, posted 07-26-2012 12:52 AM NoNukes has replied

NoNukes
Inactive Member

 Message 164 of 248 (668967) 07-26-2012 8:50 AM Reply to: Message 163 by Dogmafood07-26-2012 12:52 AM

I was just marvelling at the thought that, relative to me, the Plank length is about as small as the universe is big.
Well, the comparison is off by 10 orders of magnitude.
And the "coincidence" is an artifact of our choice of measurement units. For example if our measurement unit was 10 plank units, then the length of a plank unit would be 0.1, while the universe would measure 10^60. We could pick a unit that would make your "marvelous" observation seem downright miraculous. I believe CS has already calculated the correct size for your height to make that work out.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison

 This message is a reply to: Message 163 by Dogmafood, posted 07-26-2012 12:52 AM Dogmafood has replied

 Replies to this message: Message 166 by Dogmafood, posted 07-29-2012 8:21 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

NoNukes
Inactive Member

 Message 176 of 248 (669410) 07-29-2012 8:24 PM Reply to: Message 169 by Alfred Maddenstein07-29-2012 6:11 PM

Defend the concept of black holes if you can, or if you cannot do that just keep quiet. Understood?
Regarding your complaint that Dr. Adequate is off topic, one might note that your post haranguing Cavediver has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. Apparently you are playing some kind of whack-a-mole game in which you beset your favorite physicist whenever he appears.
But let's take a look at the message you posted. In the interest of brevity and peace, I've snipped ALL of the gratuitous, graceless crap.
...you say that gravity is a reaction of metric to itself and to stress-energy tensor. Metric is a map, the tensor is the vectors or markers on that map.
[snip]
Are you aware that Einstein himself held black holes to be a bunch of superstitious nonsense?
Einstein's opinion on black holes notwithstanding, Cavediver's statements about metric and the stress energy tensor are statements with which Einstein would have been in complete agreement. Which makes your remark rather silly.
As for black holes, they are predicted by Einstein's theory and we have evidence that they exist. But I'm wondering about a post in which you invoke Einstein as an expert in your attempt to ridicule a poster and then then ridicule Einsteinian ideas all a few sentences later.
ABE:
Here is a link to the paper AM mentioned.
"On a Stationary System With Spherical Symmetry Consisting of Many Gravitating Masses"
http://www.cscamm.umd.edu/...files/EinsteinSchwarzschild.pdf
http://cosmoquest.org/...prove-black-holes-cannot-exist-quot
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison

 This message is a reply to: Message 169 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 07-29-2012 6:11 PM Alfred Maddenstein has replied

 Replies to this message: Message 184 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 07-30-2012 12:30 AM NoNukes has replied

NoNukes
Inactive Member

 Message 189 of 248 (669461) 07-30-2012 8:05 AM Reply to: Message 184 by Alfred Maddenstein07-30-2012 12:30 AM

One never knows though, I might be wrong and he might have really believed like Crankdriver
On the topic of GR and Einstein's methods, you are wrong. Of that there is no question.
The answer to your seemingly difficult question of what Einstein believed and the question of whether only objects that can radiate can gravitate can be found in Einstein's equations and in his writings. There really isn't any need to speculate on what Einstein thought about that issue.
Further, I spent some time with Einstein's 1939 paper. I find Einstein's reasoning in the paper to be quite a bit different from your attempts to summarize the paper here.
And my question to you remains unanswered. If you think Einstein was some kind of kook, why are you invoking his paper anyway? Einstein was wrong. He was also on the wrong side of the issue on quantum mechanics. Einstein was well past his prime in 1939.
There are plenty of physics crackpots and wild theories re: physics on the internet. Is it your goal to find and adopt every one of those theories?
I don't find that his theories imply...
As if dude. As if.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison

 This message is a reply to: Message 184 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 07-30-2012 12:30 AM Alfred Maddenstein has not replied

NoNukes
Inactive Member

 (1)
 Message 191 of 248 (669499) 07-30-2012 2:07 PM Reply to: Message 190 by Alfred Maddenstein07-30-2012 1:56 PM

Re: Redundant Offense
All of the technology could thrive just fine without all the dark matters, energies and butters.
Panda said 'science/technology' and not just technology. Your statement that every accepted scientific advance since 1939 is wrong suggests that you are not a person that one ought to have a science discussion with.
In fact, both GR and SR are associated with real world technology that seems to function quite well regardless of your impression about them.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison

 This message is a reply to: Message 190 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 07-30-2012 1:56 PM Alfred Maddenstein has not replied

NoNukes
Inactive Member

 Message 195 of 248 (678072) 11-04-2012 10:20 PM Reply to: Message 193 by Lurkey11-04-2012 4:22 PM

Re: lost in space
i'm asking is there a similar lineage line from my atoms (or whatever) all the way back to the origin of the universe?
Probably no meaningful tracing. Almost certainly all of the matter present today was converted back and forth between matter and energy multiple times.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

 This message is a reply to: Message 193 by Lurkey, posted 11-04-2012 4:22 PM Lurkey has replied

 Replies to this message: Message 196 by Lurkey, posted 11-04-2012 11:36 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied Message 198 by Percy, posted 11-05-2012 7:35 AM NoNukes has replied Message 200 by Lurkey, posted 11-06-2012 11:11 PM NoNukes has not replied

NoNukes
Inactive Member

 (1)
 Message 199 of 248 (678155) 11-05-2012 5:15 PM Reply to: Message 198 by Percy11-05-2012 7:35 AM

Re: lost in space
There must have been was a lot of conversion back and forth between matter and energy in the very, very early universe, if that's what you're referring to
That was indeed what I was referring to. The question was about tracing atoms back to the origin of the universe.
but I think much of the hydrogen, helium and lithium are unchanged since first condensed out of the cooling universe
After the cooling of quarks, the cooling of hadrons, and the matter-anti-matter annihilation, yes. At some point in there we can trace most hydrogen atoms to currently existing hydrogen atoms. Most of the helium too except that some of that is made in stars and through nuclear decay.
Lithium is produced in some stars and consumed in others. Most lithium atoms were produced together with the hydrogen and helium as you describe.
Most of heavier elements formed by stellar processes and by nova and supernova are probably also unchanged since first formed.
Yes. So we cannot trace the identity of these atoms back to the origins of the universe or to any other early part of the origin of the universe.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

 This message is a reply to: Message 198 by Percy, posted 11-05-2012 7:35 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

NoNukes
Inactive Member

 Message 212 of 248 (678706) 11-09-2012 11:24 PM Reply to: Message 205 by kofh2u11-09-2012 6:05 PM

Re: lost in space
Here the whole cosmic evolution is expressed as seven stages of unfolding.
I seem to see eight flags in the picture, and I also don't see a Geological period mentioned in the unfolding. How do you get 7 stages?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

 This message is a reply to: Message 205 by kofh2u, posted 11-09-2012 6:05 PM kofh2u has not replied

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