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Author Topic:   Why do you post here?
Purpledbear
Member (Idle past 4762 days)
Posts: 31
Joined: 06-23-2009


(1)
Message 1 of 29 (544964)
01-30-2010 1:42 AM


This is for theist/non-theist friends
According to Percy when I asked a 3-4 years the intention of this forum was not to answer the question, "Does God Exist". Honestly because of this the form seems very useless.
Someone else identified the purpose of the board to me as, "A place to intellectually spar".
As recent as 40 minutes ago people are still using the same arguments they were using 3-4 years. They trumpet them as if they were new, fresh and creative ideas.
*Tens of thousands of man hours with possibly hundreds of millions of letters have been wasted here.
Why fight a fight you do not intend, desire or believe you can win?
Honestly, cut the BS.... Lets be real... You truly know the other side is wrong, right? After all you have the facts. What is the point?
Why bother having intelligent conversations with people you know will not listen?
Why waste time giving the other side an equal platform when you know they are not equal?
You would not devote tens of thousands of hours debating nazi skinheads telling them why they ought to not worship Hitler, Lynch blacks and slaughter Jewish people, would you?
Why not focus your time on working directly with your community educating them on what you know is the truth?
Why not instead of posting here get a part time job 5-15 hours a month earn money and dedicate it to established and respected groups who are fighting for the side you know is right?
Why? It seems pointless, a waste of time & valuable resources
Honestly to the best of my knowledge there is no 'point' which has been addressed here which has not been addressed with great clarity in at least 10 - 1,000 other places 50,000 times already.
If someone who truly does not share your opinion wanted the truth the information is out there and has been out there for years. Religion has existed for a long time as well Atheism has.
Will you really change your mind because of something you read here, honestly.
What is your purpose here? If your intention truly is to see your side victorious do you not believe this could be better accomplished by working with, voting for, educating and discussing facts with those on your side? Rather than those you know who will never agree?
Has anyone been converted because of interaction on this forum? If they were truly open to conversion couldn't they have just read a book or went to google.com?
---------------------------
I am successfully raising my daughter to understand how vile and disgusting religion is. I am teaching her how delusional, misguided and ignorant people who follow religion are. I am showing her along with her friends why it is not necessary to respect the opinions of theist. I teach her this in the same manner I teach her not to respect racism, sexism or unjustifiable personal attacks of violence. I have been and will contiue to be successful with this. People say without god there is no purpose. My purpose is to not allow the claws of religion choke the soul from my child. I used to like arguing here and there(youtube). It just seems pointless though.
I come here now on rare occasion. But when I do I come here to better understand my enemy. I do this so I can pass such information on to my daughter so she can do the same to her children or friends.
Why are you here? Has the purpose/mission statement or objective of this forum changed in the last few years?
I know years ago you could not send private messages. Now, I see you can - things do change
-------------------------------------
Lastly, I get it. It is good to reach out with compassion and desire to help others. Such a thing is human nature. My mom used to tell me the definition of insane is doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting different results. Isn't it insane to hash, rehash, "re-analogy" or rewrite the same argument over and over? Especially if your intention or desire is not to win?
Edited by Purpledbear, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
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 Message 5 by Larni, posted 01-30-2010 6:19 AM Purpledbear has not replied
 Message 8 by RAZD, posted 01-30-2010 7:57 AM Purpledbear has not replied
 Message 9 by Modulous, posted 01-30-2010 8:17 AM Purpledbear has not replied
 Message 10 by lyx2no, posted 01-30-2010 9:13 AM Purpledbear has not replied
 Message 11 by Granny Magda, posted 01-30-2010 9:30 AM Purpledbear has not replied
 Message 12 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee, posted 01-30-2010 9:48 AM Purpledbear has not replied
 Message 14 by slevesque, posted 02-01-2010 2:54 PM Purpledbear has not replied
 Message 15 by Apothecus, posted 02-01-2010 4:14 PM Purpledbear has not replied
 Message 16 by Stile, posted 02-02-2010 8:03 AM Purpledbear has not replied
 Message 17 by Peepul, posted 02-02-2010 8:35 AM Purpledbear has not replied
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Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 2 of 29 (544967)
01-30-2010 3:46 AM


Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
Thread copied here from the Why do you post here? thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3634 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


(1)
Message 3 of 29 (544971)
01-30-2010 5:04 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Purpledbear
01-30-2010 1:42 AM


Will you really change your mind...?
Will you really change your mind because of something you read here, honestly.
When I arrived at EvC I was a freshly revitalised charismatic evangelical Christian, speaking in tongues, raising my hands, and thriving in my new church (I had been a b.a. Christian for 20+ years.)
For the past two years, I have developed into what is probably most easily described as agnostic atheist, with pseudo-deist flights of fancy. This is not a temporary backslide (had plenty of those) nor a classic disillusionment with "God". I would consider this (de)conversion one of the most important periods in my life. And this is almost solely the result of participation at EvC.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Purpledbear, posted 01-30-2010 1:42 AM Purpledbear has not replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3448 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 4 of 29 (544972)
01-30-2010 5:40 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Purpledbear
01-30-2010 1:42 AM


Change Comes Bit by Bit
quote:
Will you really change your mind because of something you read here, honestly.
I've changed my mind and learned many things in the course of discussions.
I've found things in the Bible I never knew were there.
I've come to understand the Bible in a way that enables me to stand against evangelists.
I've found better ways to explain the short comings of religion to my family.
Change doesn't always happen in one big blast. Sometimes it comes bit by bit.

Scripture is like Newton’s third law of motionfor every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
In other words, for every biblical directive that exists, there is another scriptural mandate challenging it.
-- Carlene Cross in The Bible and Newton’s Third Law of Motion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Purpledbear, posted 01-30-2010 1:42 AM Purpledbear has not replied

  
Larni
Member (Idle past 154 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 5 of 29 (544974)
01-30-2010 6:19 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Purpledbear
01-30-2010 1:42 AM


Well, I've learnt shitloads since coming here. That's a change in the state of my knowledge; I can't complain about that.
I'm better able to debate and put forwards arguments.
I've become an agnostic where as before I was an out and out atheist. That's a really big change, I reckon.
It's also fun; I like arguing and trying to put a good argument across. The fact that people stay here for years shows that people do get reward from being here.
Is it pointless? By what measure? Talking with one poster helped me improve my professional practice. That is certainly not pointless.

This message is a reply to:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 275 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 6 of 29 (544978)
01-30-2010 6:42 AM


There are various reasons. But I think that the best reasons are people like slevesque and wumpini. I need someone who can put up some cogent argument that I am wrong.

  
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3092 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


(1)
Message 7 of 29 (544979)
01-30-2010 7:29 AM


I agree with the posters above. EvC has been an educational tool to learn more about religion and science.
I believe that the human brain can absorb more knowledge through active interaction than by just reading a book or words on a website. By actively engaging, reading, commenting, and teaching back this knowledge you will more deeply engrain it into your working knowledge. Isn't this why we have universities, debate societies, forums, etc in the first place? Reading a book only gets you so far.
My point is that if you can't teach it to someone else than you really don't know and understand it. EvC is a very good tool for teach back. Of course it is dependent on the recipient to verify what they are learning is actually true, which itself opens up the avenue for more learning through fact checking and validation.
Thus the verbal sparring on EvC does fit a very important and vital educational role even if you think it does not.
I am sure many, many of us can attest to how much we have learned here about religion, science, politics, and many other subjects on EvC. I know I sure have.
Just because some of us like to post on here does not mean EvC is the end-all/be-all of our lives. I know it isn't for me. EvC is just a nice hobby to keep me cognitively astute and active and like Cavediver expressed earlier, EvC has been a great tool for self discovery and religious deprogramming.
Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.
Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : Correct spelling and grammer
Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous. - Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection
"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan
"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1395 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 8 of 29 (544980)
01-30-2010 7:57 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Purpledbear
01-30-2010 1:42 AM


Hi Purpledbear, welcome back
Why bother having intelligent conversations with people you know will not listen?
Why waste time giving the other side an equal platform when you know they are not equal?
You would not devote tens of thousands of hours debating nazi skinheads telling them why they ought to not worship Hitler, Lynch blacks and slaughter Jewish people, would you?
Because there are people reading these forums that are looking for answers.
Because the best way to show that the two sides are not equal is to show that the two sides are not equal and that there are more than two sides.
Yes, for the reasons just given.
More to the point, whynot?
*Tens of thousands of man hours with possibly hundreds of millions of letters have been wasted here.
Do you watch TV? I don't.
TV is a complete waste of time. Even the news is filtered and edited for entertainment value over realistic representations of what is going on.
Faux News? Propaganda more than truth. If I want the truth I look for it elsewhere than TV.
Has anyone been converted because of interaction on this forum?
Yes.
If they were truly open to conversion couldn't they have just read a book or went to google.com?
How do you know what book to read, what internet site to trust?
Many people find this site by google when looking for information on certain topics.
Enjoy.
Edited by RAZD, : whynot?

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Purpledbear, posted 01-30-2010 1:42 AM Purpledbear has not replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7799
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


(1)
Message 9 of 29 (544984)
01-30-2010 8:17 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Purpledbear
01-30-2010 1:42 AM


Why? It seems pointless, a waste of time & valuable resources
And yet here you are, making an argument that's been made before, that didn't convince anybody when it was first raised, wasting valuable time posting here! It seems to me that if you were genuinely interested in learning the answers to the questions you pose you could ask yourself a fair few of them.
To answer your questions in general: It's a hobby. I enjoy having my ideas challenged and conceiving new rhetorical constructs, reading about bleeding edge science from the source and talking to people (who incidentally, do actually compose 'a community'). Winning an internet argument in a fatal coup of brilliance serves as a motivating factor (and a sort of unintelligent guiding force, a free education director if you will) in educating myself about the world I live in.
To really get to the heart of things
Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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lyx2no
Member (Idle past 4706 days)
Posts: 1277
From: A vast, undifferentiated plane.
Joined: 02-28-2008


(1)
Message 10 of 29 (544988)
01-30-2010 9:13 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Purpledbear
01-30-2010 1:42 AM


Peers
Amongst my peers I am Professor Knows-it-all. It's an expectation that I find gets in my way of learning. I often feel ashamed to admit to not knowing something. Here I can express my ignorance and be corrected without disappointing anyone.

You are now a million miles away from where you were in space-time when you started reading this sentence.

This message is a reply to:
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Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 3.8


(1)
Message 11 of 29 (544990)
01-30-2010 9:30 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Purpledbear
01-30-2010 1:42 AM


Hi Purpledbear,
Why bother?
1) For the lulz.
2) Because, as Mod noted, SIWOTI and that just bugs me.
3) To learn in an enjoyable fashion.
4) Because I think that creationism is not merely wrong, but part of a harmful system of belief that actively makes its adherents more ignorant and contributes to making the world a crappier place. The internet is a very powerful tool for fringe beliefs like this. The creationist lobby cannot be allowed to go unopposed.
As recent as 40 minutes ago people are still using the same arguments they were using 3-4 years. They trumpet them as if they were new, fresh and creative ideas.
Yes, but for the most part, it's not the same people. People who have been taken in by creationism are not necessarily idiots. Many are perfectly sensible and intelligent, they just happen to have fallen prey to a very powerful self-perpetuating con trick. Such people need to be given the opportunity to see through the lies and the best way to do that is through debate. Sure, most will just give us the brush off, but that's their choice.
Basically, I think that if no-one were to step up and answer creationist questions, the internet would be all the more powerful as a creationist proselytising machine.
Mutate and Survive

"A curious aspect of the theory of evolution is that everybody thinks he understands it." - Jacques Monod

This message is a reply to:
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Jumped Up Chimpanzee
Member (Idle past 4932 days)
Posts: 572
From: UK
Joined: 10-22-2009


Message 12 of 29 (544992)
01-30-2010 9:48 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Purpledbear
01-30-2010 1:42 AM


Hi Purplebear
Why are you here?
Because I like to discuss ontological matters and don't know anyone in real life who likes to do the same.
And because even if I did, I'm too introverted in real life to express my ideas in such a pompous manner.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Purpledbear, posted 01-30-2010 1:42 AM Purpledbear has not replied

Replies to this message:
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DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3092 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 13 of 29 (544995)
01-30-2010 11:32 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee
01-30-2010 9:48 AM


And because even if I did, I'm too introverted in real life to express my ideas in such a pompous manner.
And in many if not most workplaces, ontological and religious discussions are discouraged and/or prohibited.

One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous. - Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection
"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan
"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee, posted 01-30-2010 9:48 AM Jumped Up Chimpanzee has not replied

  
slevesque
Member (Idle past 4631 days)
Posts: 1456
Joined: 05-14-2009


Message 14 of 29 (545130)
02-01-2010 2:54 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Purpledbear
01-30-2010 1:42 AM


Hi Purpledbear,
I post here for all the reasons mentioned above. And I don't feel wrong about it since I don't spend hours around here posting stuff.
It hasnt been a full year that I'm around, and I can tell you that I have learned a whole lot. Especially in the logical aspects of debate, where there is no better way to learn then through experience I guess.
And as DA said, this kind of conversation is a lot less accessible in the public sphere, particularly here in Quebec where many are ignorant of the whole issue.
I am successfully raising my daughter to understand how vile and disgusting religion is. I am teaching her how delusional, misguided and ignorant people who follow religion are.
I guess I'm delusional, misguided and ignorant. That's probably why I chose to study Math's and physics at university ...
I am showing her along with her friends why it is not necessary to respect the opinions of theist.
Right, right, if someone is theists. Don't respect his opinions .... gotcha.
People say without god there is no purpose. My purpose is to not allow the claws of religion choke the soul from my child.
Since your children don't have a soul technically, I guess your own purpose is devoid of sense.
I come here now on rare occasion. But when I do I come here to better understand my enemy. I do this so I can pass such information on to my daughter so she can do the same to her children or friends.
US vs THEM mentality, I like it.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by MikeDeich, posted 02-02-2010 7:53 PM slevesque has replied

  
Apothecus
Member (Idle past 2401 days)
Posts: 275
From: CA USA
Joined: 01-05-2010


Message 15 of 29 (545136)
02-01-2010 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Purpledbear
01-30-2010 1:42 AM


I'd have to say it's a bit of a hobby for me as well. I've lurked here and at other sites such as this, and EvC seems to be a cut above the rest as far as rational thought, reasoning, intelligence of posters, etc. (on both sides). Moderators take an active role, which cuts down on most of the chaos seen at some other forums. It's just more...fair.
I enjoy the debate, although I admit I'm more a learner than teacher at this point. In my daily life, I'm more or less surrounded by fundamentalist Christians, and this site represents an anchor to what I see as reality. I come here to regain a measure of sanity in what I see as a less sane (a more p.c. term?) creationist environment.
Thanks for the opportunity.
Have a good one.

This message is a reply to:
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