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Author Topic:   Why do you post here?
Stile
Member
Posts: 3394
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 16 of 29 (545202)
02-02-2010 8:03 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Purpledbear
01-30-2010 1:42 AM


Weeeee
Purpledbear writes:

Why are you here?

I just heard it's where all the cool kids post.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Purpledbear, posted 01-30-2010 1:42 AM Purpledbear has not yet responded

    
Peepul
Member (Idle past 3098 days)
Posts: 206
Joined: 03-13-2009


Message 17 of 29 (545207)
02-02-2010 8:35 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Purpledbear
01-30-2010 1:42 AM


I'm here to find out what's really the case in relation to evolution vs creation. More than anything I enjoy interacting with creationists who can put an argument together in a coherent way. I like the challenge to my own thinking.

Edited by Peepul, : No reason given.

Edited by Peepul, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Purpledbear, posted 01-30-2010 1:42 AM Purpledbear has not yet responded

    
MikeDeich
Junior Member (Idle past 2639 days)
Posts: 24
From: Rosario, Argentina
Joined: 10-31-2009


Message 18 of 29 (545281)
02-02-2010 7:53 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by slevesque
02-01-2010 2:54 PM


Since your children don't have a soul technically, I guess your own purpose is devoid of sense.

This is rather harsh & unjustified. The belief in a soul, or God for that matter, has nothing to do with the belief in a religion. While Purpledbear does use the word theist, his statements are more against religion specifically. He never explains his personal position in detail, only that he feels organized religion is harmful to his daughters development. You can come to such conclusions even with a strong belief in God, although Pbear never claims one way or another. To me religion only simply tells us how we should believe in God. I personally don't feel the need to be told how to do something I do just fine on my own. Just like most atheists don't need to be told to be good people.

In regard to the OP, I am here to learn more than anything. I chose to open a business rather than pursue graduate studies. I double majored in Psych & anthropology, & wanted to pursue research in evolutionary psychology & primatology. I continue to read non-fiction books on primate behavior, history, & human origins....currently reading Guns, Germs, & Steel...great read! Anyway this forum helps me learn from those with more knowledge than myself, since I opted not to continue school. While I don't believe any creationist/ID will change my opinions on evolution, I still try to understand their arguments or laugh them off as the nonsense that they are....depending on which seems more appropriate. Ultimately though I see individuals incapable of accommodating faith (religious or otherwise) & supported facts.....although plenty of others have no problem with it. I suppose the only options are accommodate, ignore, or attack.....


This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by slevesque, posted 02-01-2010 2:54 PM slevesque has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by slevesque, posted 02-03-2010 3:45 PM MikeDeich has responded

  
caffeine
Member
Posts: 1602
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 19 of 29 (545316)
02-03-2010 5:46 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Purpledbear
01-30-2010 1:42 AM


At the risk of repeating what has already been said, I think most people are here just because they're interested in the topic, and enjoy arguing about it. This in itself seems sufficient reason, really.

I also do learn a lot posting here. I don't think you really grasp how superficial your understanding of a topic is until you've had an argument with someone about it. Talking here prompts me to go and learn details I probably never would have got round to looking at by myself. Thanks to slevesque, I spent the morning learning about the fossil record of theropods; and have set myself the next text of grasping the details of feather evolution.

As for wasted man hours, I'm usually posting from work, so I see this as me getting paid to read articles about biology - that's not wasted time.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Purpledbear, posted 01-30-2010 1:42 AM Purpledbear has not yet responded

  
slevesque
Member (Idle past 2720 days)
Posts: 1456
Joined: 05-14-2009


Message 20 of 29 (545400)
02-03-2010 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by MikeDeich
02-02-2010 7:53 PM


I know it was harsh and unjustified, probably just as much as when he claimed religious people were ignorant and stupid. And just as unjustified as telling his daughters friend not to respect the opinion of theists.

In the light of all he hd said, I had to bring up the dichotomy of wanting to preserve his childs 'soul'. Which was a very religious comment on it's own.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by MikeDeich, posted 02-03-2010 9:45 PM slevesque has not yet responded

  
MikeDeich
Junior Member (Idle past 2639 days)
Posts: 24
From: Rosario, Argentina
Joined: 10-31-2009


Message 21 of 29 (545493)
02-03-2010 9:45 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by slevesque
02-03-2010 3:45 PM


I understand why you would get defensive, but I will disagree with the idea of a soul as being religious....the idea of a soul is spiritual, not religious. While I'm not religious, I was raised catholic...& I will mention "turn the other cheek"....too often in this forum emotion carries away legitimate conversation & debate....Lets all try to keep our heads a little bit.

But then again, in regards to the OP, we must all acknowledge that we do come here for a bit of a fight. A bit of heated debate that we all apparently feel strongly about. If we all held ourselves in in the same environments (either religious, theistic, creationist, academic, scientific, darwinian, etc) we all would miss the chance to learn from others of a different environment and maybe 'evolve' to be a better individuals more capable of living in a broader social environment human beings have been 'designed' by 'natural selection' to live in. Anyone feel free to disagree with my rhetoric.

Edited by MikeDeich, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by slevesque, posted 02-03-2010 3:45 PM slevesque has not yet responded

  
Rahvin
Member (Idle past 1267 days)
Posts: 3964
Joined: 07-01-2005


Message 22 of 29 (545580)
02-04-2010 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Purpledbear
01-30-2010 1:42 AM


This is for theist/non-theist friends

According to Percy when I asked a 3-4 years the intention of this forum was not to answer the question, "Does God Exist". Honestly because of this the form seems very useless.

This forum (and one other) was instrumental in my de-conversion from a very faithful Christian to an Atheist. I don't believe that online debate is useless at all.

Someone else identified the purpose of the board to me as, "A place to intellectually spar".

As recent as 40 minutes ago people are still using the same arguments they were using 3-4 years. They trumpet them as if they were new, fresh and creative ideas.

Indeed. However, not all of the arguments are the same.

I noticed way back in school that the best way for me to really understand a concept was to work out multiple ways of explaining it to someone else. In our discussions here on EvC, we've all tried to debate the same old topics in hundreds of different ways. I've been around here for several years now, and I can honestly say that I learn something new on this site on a fequent and regular basis. Even if I try to debate taxonomy or the flood or the Big Bang for the thousandth time, I'm not just regurgitating the same argument I;ve used in the past, and neither are most of our other participants.

Sure, we see PRATTs over and over again. Sometimes they're so easily refuted that nothing new is gained. But we do have some very interesting debates here, and that is where we all learn.

*Tens of thousands of man hours with possibly hundreds of millions of letters have been wasted here.

Why fight a fight you do not intend, desire or believe you can win?

"Winning" depends on your goal. Convincing myopponent to concede that i am correct is only one of many goals. Another is to learn more, about the position I'm supporting and the opposition. Another is to ensure that I am supporting the position that best reflects available evidence and logical reasoning - I can be (and have been) convinced to change my own positions here. I also debate for the lurkers, those sideliners who don;t say much or even anything but who read our discussions.

Honestly, cut the BS.... Lets be real... You truly know the other side is wrong, right? After all you have the facts. What is the point?

I know very little with certainty. I have a set of information, and I base my positions on the information available to me. When I am presented with additional information, I am occasionally compelled to change my position to reflect the new data.

It is philisophically possible that deities exist. That ghosts exist. That there was a great Flood a few thousand years ago. That our current Theory of Evolution works from false foundations.

Examine my debate tactics. I tend to try to dispell strawmen (for example, if Ray Comfort were to appear, most of the debate would surround his laughably false portrayal of whatthe Theory of Evolution actually says) and secondarily point out logical fallacies in an argument. It's not about proving that I'm right so much as critically examining what others present. After all, I'm not proving evolution when I point out that Comfort's "bullfrog" chimaera has less to do with actual evolutionary theory and more to do with Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (entertaining, but not exactly scientific material).

Why bother having intelligent conversations with people you know will not listen?

Why waste time giving the other side an equal platform when you know they are not equal?

Because that sort of atrtitude will change no minds, while atleast participating in the debate has a chance. And the opportunity for learning is always present.

You would not devote tens of thousands of hours debating nazi skinheads telling them why they ought to not worship Hitler, Lynch blacks and slaughter Jewish people, would you?

I've devoted significant time on this very board debating against those who persecute homosexuals. If neo-nazis had half a chance in hell of actually gaining political power or influence in public school systems, I'd make some noise there, too.

With Nazis, time is not wasted because of their zealous fervor; rather, I'd simply be preaching to the choir. I suppose I could head on over to Stormfront and try to talk sense into the senseless, but really that would likely just get me banned and possibly incite violence. Militant bigots are fucking scary. Creationists are, by and large, not likely to lynch anyone nowadays (abortion-doctor-murderers notwithstanding).

Why not focus your time on working directly with your community educating them on what you know is the truth?

That's basically how I see my time here, though more as student than teacher, and with less certainty than you imply.

Why not instead of posting here get a part time job 5-15 hours a month earn money and dedicate it to established and respected groups who are fighting for the side you know is right?

Why? It seems pointless, a waste of time & valuable resources

I engage in many activities that could be considered wasteful. And so do you. Imagine if all of our WoW time were devoted to community service?

Honestly to the best of my knowledge there is no 'point' which has been addressed here which has not been addressed with great clarity in at least 10 - 1,000 other places 50,000 times already.

And yet not everyone has seen those points discussed, and many who have could still benefit from seeing the same point discussed in a different way. Surely you don't fully comprehend something the first time you're exposed to it, do you? I know I certainly don't. Repeatedly discussing the same topics from different angles helps me to more fully understand those topics, whether my position on the subject changes or not.

If someone who truly does not share your opinion wanted the truth the information is out there and has been out there for years. Religion has existed for a long time as well Atheism has.

Everything that can be thought of, already has? I don't think so. I've seen arguments here that I've never seen anywhere else.

Will you really change your mind because of something you read here, honestly.

I have once, already. It's more than possible that I will do so again.

What is your purpose here? If your intention truly is to see your side victorious do you not believe this could be better accomplished by working with, voting for, educating and discussing facts with those on your side? Rather than those you know who will never agree?

This place keeps my mind sharp. This is where I really get to flex my critical thinking muscles. It's a place to learn - about physics, astronomy, biology, taxonomy, religion, philosophy, and all the other topics we discuss.

It's also something to do when I'm bored at work.

I don't debate to "win." I debate to practice critical thinking so that I can use those skills in my everyday life. I debate to ensure that my worldview is logically consistent and based on the most objective, reality-accurate information available to me. I debate because dammit, I think arguing is fun.

Has anyone been converted because of interaction on this forum? If they were truly open to conversion couldn't they have just read a book or went to google.com?

Ironically, Google is how I found this place.

I am successfully raising my daughter to understand how vile and disgusting religion is. I am teaching her how delusional, misguided and ignorant people who follow religion are. I am showing her along with her friends why it is not necessary to respect the opinions of theist. I teach her this in the same manner I teach her not to respect racism, sexism or unjustifiable personal attacks of violence. I have been and will contiue to be successful with this. People say without god there is no purpose. My purpose is to not allow the claws of religion choke the soul from my child. I used to like arguing here and there(youtube). It just seems pointless though.

I don't think religion (as a concept) is vile or disgusting. I think it's a crutch, a nearly inevitable consequence of the function of our inherently irrational brains. The specific techings of specific religions can be vile, but let's be honest - most religious people today reject the vile parts of their own faiths, even if only by ignoring those bits entirely. Not many Christians in the developed world, for example, stone rebellious children or execute homosexuals. Some of them advocate those sorts of things, and they're certainly supported in the Bible, but most Christians have decent ethical systems in place in spite of the barbaric bullshit contained in tehir holy books.

Remember, not all religion is fundamentalist Christianity, or radical Islam. All of it is irrational by definition, but irrational thought is not inherently monstrous, and the harm it causes is related to the specific irrational belief, not the fact that the belief is irrational.

I come here now on rare occasion. But when I do I come here to better understand my enemy. I do this so I can pass such information on to my daughter so she can do the same to her children or friends.

Why do you consider "them" to be "the enemy?" Doesn't that perpetuate some of what you're trying to not pass on? Isn't the "Us vs. Them" tribalism and the unsupported certainty of "We're Right and All of You are Wrong" of religion some of the biggest problems with such philosophies?

Lastly, I get it. It is good to reach out with compassion and desire to help others. Such a thing is human nature. My mom used to tell me the definition of insane is doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting different results. Isn't it insane to hash, rehash, "re-analogy" or rewrite the same argument over and over? Especially if your intention or desire is not to win?

I'd point out that repetition hoping for a different result is not, in fact, the definition of "insanity," and that occasionally repeating oneself does produce a different result. Particularly when dealing with human beings, who are naturally irrational. Some people "get it" only after being told effectively the same thing a dozen times in slightly different ways.

Winning isn't everything. If I learn something by participating in a discussion, or if I help an opponent to at least argue against the actual Theory of Evolution instead of a bizzarre strawman they picked up, I still count those as "wins."


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Purpledbear, posted 01-30-2010 1:42 AM Purpledbear has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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Kevin123
Junior Member (Idle past 3150 days)
Posts: 23
From: Texas, USA
Joined: 10-11-2008


Message 23 of 29 (559645)
05-10-2010 9:58 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Rahvin
02-04-2010 11:57 AM


I am curious about why some people post here too. It seems to me that there are three categories of people posting in this forum:

First creationist who believe in God and usually hold some theistic religious beliefs, who along with debating are interested in converting others. I can understand why these people are here. I’m sure many hope to convert others or simply find evidence to strengthen their faith. Or maybe some are questioning their faith and come here because of doubts they have.

Then there are those somewhere between religious and atheists who are truly seeking information and want to learn both sides of the argument. Their presence on this forum is pretty self explanatory.

Finally there are the hardcore evolutionists/atheists. You can usually spot these guys by the sarcastic use of flying spaghetti monsters, magic, fairy dust, etc.

My questions is for the people in the last category, the hardcore atheist/evolutionist. Why do you take time out of your busy schedule to argue with creationists who you consider dumb, uneducated or just plain delusional? If you categorize creationist beliefs out there with monsters and fairies why are you wasting your time here? Some of you seem pretty intelligent, surely you have better things to do. Or do you spend time on other website debating the existence of monsters, fairies, aliens, crop circles and any other ridiculous belief you come across? I am interested in hearing why some atheists feel the need to “convert” others to their beliefs.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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 Message 25 by Otto Tellick, posted 05-11-2010 12:09 AM Kevin123 has not yet responded
 Message 26 by hooah212002, posted 05-11-2010 12:50 AM Kevin123 has not yet responded

    
lyx2no
Member (Idle past 2796 days)
Posts: 1277
From: A vast, undifferentiated plane.
Joined: 02-28-2008


Message 24 of 29 (559653)
05-10-2010 10:49 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Kevin123
05-10-2010 9:58 PM


Because All Creationists Pigeon Hole Others
My questions is for the people in the last category, the hardcore atheist/evolutionist.

Why do you disregard the theist/evolutionists? Do you believe them to be less busy then atheist/evolutionists? I'd think they'ed have to be busier with all the hosannas they have to fit in between the rational thoughts.

Why do you take time out of your busy schedule to argue with creationists who you consider dumb, uneducated or just plain delusional?

Isn't thinking that we're smarter reason enough? I know I feel better about myself for having scoffed at the silly ideas of others.

If you categorize creationist beliefs out there with monsters and fairies why are you wasting your time here?

Why if they categorize evolutionist beliefs out there with… with… Oh yeah! That's right they keep categorizing evolutionist beliefs with religion. Why do creationists waste their time scoffing at religion? Aren't they busy?

Some of you seem pretty intelligent, surely you have better things to do. Or do you spend time on other website debating the existence of monsters, fairies, aliens, crop circles and any other ridiculous belief you come across?

Ever seen a t-shirt that say "MUFON: Teach the Controversy"? And they don't even have the First Amendment working against them. But yes, I've spotted more then a few EvC members at other sites.

I am interested in hearing why some atheists feel the need to “convert” others to their beliefs.

All people believe that their beliefs are the best ones, and that the world would run more smoothly if everybody believed the same thing. That is why people, any people, try to convert others. Atheist have a bit more incentive then just plain ol' bias of course. Religionists have a history of catching us on fire. I hope I don't have to tell you how annoying that can be. Anyhow, the more Atheists there are the less tempted Religionist are to act on their all-to-human instincts. The dirty little secret of all Atheists, however, is that we all pray that some day we'll be plentiful enough to set y'all on fire.

Hope that helps; but, if you have a question that assumes less, you may get a better answer.


"Mom! Ban Ki-moon made a non-binding resolution at me." — Mohmoud Ahmadinejad
This message is a reply to:
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Otto Tellick
Member (Idle past 410 days)
Posts: 288
From: PA, USA
Joined: 02-17-2008


Message 25 of 29 (559660)
05-11-2010 12:09 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Kevin123
05-10-2010 9:58 PM


Kevin123 writes:

My questions is for the people in the last category, the hardcore atheist/evolutionist. Why do you take time out of your busy schedule to argue with creationists who you consider dumb, uneducated or just plain delusional?

I don't disagree with anything in lyx2no's facetious reply, but let me offer a more sincere response. There are a couple different reasons why I spend the time to post here...

Reason 1: Because I see these dumb, uneducated, delusional creationists trying very hard to make everyone else as dumb, uneducated and delusional as they are. They are pushing their way into school boards, lobbying and bullying legislators, and striving to make everyone forget or misunderstand what the U.S. constitution really says about the separation of church and state.

I'll have none of that, and I'm going to push back. If I didn't have a palpable sense that these people pose a serious threat to my personal freedom and well-being, I wouldn't be posting against them. I won't sit by silently and let them get away with it. I'll answer them directly to explain as clearly as I can that their intention to shove their narrow-minded dogma down everyone's throat is untenable and unacceptable. Their assertions about the inerrancy of their biblical interpretations are ludicrous, and their ignorance, denials and misrepresentations of science are pathetic. And yet they feel both entitled and obliged to maintain and promote their idiocy because it is religion, and as religion (for no other reason), it is supposed to deserve and must receive special respect, even when it is obviously counter-factual.

Reason 2: Because there are some thoughtful, intelligent and well-informed theists and deists here whose opinions I respect, whose beliefs are tempered by evidence and reason, and I enjoy engaging them in discussions that are thoughtful, intelligent and well-informed. It's very enriching for me, and helps me to clarify my ideas about why it is that supernatural notions really are unnecessary in order for the human species to get on with its business of optimizing the chances of continued survival for life in general (not just for self-interested individuals, and not just for humans). This is a good forum, because there's more to it than creos and evos hammering each other.


autotelic adj. (of an entity or event) having within itself the purpose of its existence or happening.
This message is a reply to:
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hooah212002
Member
Posts: 3183
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 26 of 29 (559664)
05-11-2010 12:50 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Kevin123
05-10-2010 9:58 PM


My questions is for the people in the last category, the hardcore atheist/evolutionist.

Why do you assume atheist="evolutionist" (I hate the term evolutionist) or evolutionist=atheist?

Why do you take time out of your busy schedule to argue with creationists who you consider dumb, uneducated or just plain delusional?

Why does anyone do anything on the internet? Why do 4channers waste their time trolling people? I only say that to say this: why do you see what we do as a "waste of time"? For myself personally, if I could get one of the creo's to just stop and think for a minute, I won't have wasted any time at all. I personally could care less what religious folks do either in their own home or in their congregation, but when they try and push their beliefs on others, a problem arises.

If you categorize creationist beliefs out there with monsters and fairies why are you wasting your time here?

People who believe in monsters and fairies and ghouls and goblins DO NOT try and push their beliefs on MY children. They DO NOT try and get their beliefs taught as fact in the public arena.

Or do you spend time on other website debating the existence of monsters, fairies, aliens, crop circles and any other ridiculous belief you come across?

No, for the simple fact that there are people here who also have excellent educations for me to learn things from. EvC forums aren't simply a place to bash creo's. This is also a place to learn.


"The Bible was written to show us how to go to heaven, not how the heavens go" -Galileao
This message is a reply to:
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Jzyehoshua
Inactive Member


Message 27 of 29 (564964)
06-14-2010 4:12 AM


1. Challenging my mind to new ways of thinking. Contrary to what many might think simply from hearing the term 'Creationist', I've actually adapted my position on numerous issues in the past to where I'm polarized almost down the line on both sides of normally partisan lines. For example, people hear I oppose Barack Obama and don't realize I've been opposing both him and George W. Bush since 2004. They hear I'm pro-life and don't realize I've been against the Death Penalty and the Iraq War for just as long. They hear 'Creationist' and don't consider that I support natural selection and adaptation but recognize the alternative Darwin himself considered, of parent species. They figure I'm Christian so I must be Republican even though I've voted 3rd party in every presidential election and many gubernatorial elections as well and affiliated with pro-life Democrats as early as 2007. I oppose free trade, support government regulation and universal health care, and if one were to look purely at my stances on economic issues would likely not be able to tell me from a liberal Democrat. I have played chess for years but this helps me open my mind to new lines of thought even better, and consider the views of other people. It's because I've been so willing to listen to others and consider all sides (including those not mentioned) that I've come up with such a unique set of views that is not truly symptomatic of any one group or political party.

2. Being right on the issues. Talking to others on forums like this has been for years a way to reinforce my own beliefs about why I believe what I do, and assure myself there are no stones left unturned, as it were, in being confident about what I believe. I am confident that the Bible is true, and my beliefs are right. That is why I willingly engage in thoughtful dialogue with others on such forums, to pick their brains as it were It makes me consider all the sources of the other side, understand their arguments, and know why they believe what they do. It helps me in real life when I come across these arguments, because I've already met them time and again and had plenty of time to formulate my opinions on them. I like to research and analyze, examine and understand. I look at the issues on their merits, drawing my own conclusions separate from everybody else.

3. Stuff that matters. These forums may get argumentative, but it brings out the controversial stuff that needs to be talked about. It makes you think about big picture stuff that has the greatest bearing on everything. Like I said, I want to be right on the issues - especially the most important ones. This keeps me focused on being the best on issues most important. It also assures I am prepared to honestly speak well-researched and thought-out lines of reasoning on the most important topics at all times.

4. It's fun, and fun to learn. Lets face it, you're going to run into people who will be throwing out the best sources and lines of reasoning, and it will push you to be at your best. You have to constantly push yourself to see what they are saying, and consider the viewpoints. In the process of conversation, you learn about science and philosophy, politics and economics, worldviews, debate, and human nature. It makes you better in an engaging way. Yes, conflict occurs, but that's typical when anything worthwhile is at stake. Often, conflict is just the precursor to a noble goal.

5. Understand opposing tactics. Ad hominems and strawmen fallacies abound galore on such forums. As a result of these forums, I've become very good at recognizing them, and how to avoid them. This is good for countering such tactics when they are used in real life, or else avoiding them altogether. I despise dishonesty though, and it's a constant struggle not to react angrily when they are used, and stay cool-headed. I am learning however.

6. Open the minds of others. I am not concerned so much with getting others to accept my point of view as consider it. Many simply hear 'Creationist' and assume brainwashed, never-thought-for-themselves, poorly educated buffoon. As a result, my arguments may lead them to at least consider the potential lines of thought behind the topics, and that it might at least be debatable. This is the first step to being openminded, recognizing the other side is not simply stupid but has reasons for what they believe. Yes, some, even many may simply be reciting what they've heard from a pastor, scientist, etc. But there are free-thinking people on opposing ends of the spectrum, and the arguments more complex than both sides of the aisle would portray them when saying 'our side is right'. Recognizing this is the first step to consideration of one another and getting to the bottom of the issue with reasoned dialogue.

Edited by Jzyehoshua, : No reason given.


  
articulett
Member (Idle past 1451 days)
Posts: 49
Joined: 06-15-2010


Message 28 of 29 (565292)
06-15-2010 9:03 PM


I'm posting here, because I'm madly in love with Dr. Adequate.
    
articulett
Member (Idle past 1451 days)
Posts: 49
Joined: 06-15-2010


Message 29 of 29 (565299)
06-15-2010 10:07 PM


I had posted some questions here, but I deleted them, because this is the wrong thread for such questions.

Edited by articulett, : To add last question

Edited by articulett, : I accidentally posted off topic.


    
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