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Author Topic:   Is America a Christian Nation?
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 153 of 206 (663814)
05-26-2012 8:38 PM
Reply to: Message 152 by Jzyehoshua
05-26-2012 8:17 PM


Re: Madison And Jefferson
The U.S. was founded on William Penn's 1682 government, the Province of Pennsylvania, which clearly was a Christian nation.

You have not done anything more than assert this, so I'm curious what there is to refute. Your claim is that much/most of what is considered American is based on William Penn's 1682 government. How about describing a few examples?

I see a number of Christian related things that are definitely NOT part of our structure for government. For example a requirement that public officials be Christian is not part of our Government. The religious freedom clause is nothing like the First Amendment as it singles out a single object of worship as being legitimate.

Further some of the institutions that are in common with our form of government were also in common with England.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison


This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by Jzyehoshua, posted 05-26-2012 8:17 PM Jzyehoshua has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by Jzyehoshua, posted 05-26-2012 8:52 PM NoNukes has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 158 of 206 (663822)
05-26-2012 9:10 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by Jzyehoshua
05-26-2012 8:52 PM


Re: Madison And Jefferson
It produced almost exactly a century before the U.S. Constitution concepts such as an elected 2-house Congress to pass bills, religious freedom, freedom of speech, and a Bill of Rights.

Most of those things are unrelated to being a Christian nation.

We also know historically that the bicameral legislatures date back to medieval times.

In particular, though, given the huge differences between religious freedom as Penn viewed it, and the version that was incorporated into the Bill of Rights, it seems pretty strange to cite this.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison


This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by Jzyehoshua, posted 05-26-2012 8:52 PM Jzyehoshua has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 159 by Jzyehoshua, posted 05-26-2012 9:32 PM NoNukes has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 168 of 206 (664014)
05-28-2012 3:51 PM
Reply to: Message 159 by Jzyehoshua
05-26-2012 9:32 PM


Re: Madison And Jefferson
Well, as far as being a Christian nation, Penn's government:

We are discussing your claim that the US is a Christian nation. I agree that Penn included some Christian principles in Pennsylvania's government. But none of the Christian stuff made it into our Constitution.

And this lengthy post of yours does nothing to advance your claim. It's just a long list of things in Penn's government.

I find discussing things with you somewhat frustrating because you have a problem supporting your propositions with making on point, fact based arguments.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison


This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by Jzyehoshua, posted 05-26-2012 9:32 PM Jzyehoshua has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 169 by RAZD, posted 05-28-2012 4:18 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply
 Message 171 by Jzyehoshua, posted 05-28-2012 7:47 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 197 of 206 (664156)
05-29-2012 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 190 by Jzyehoshua
05-29-2012 1:35 AM


Re: Yes, Virginia, There Is A Statute For Religious Freedom
Concerning taxes on business, I'd like to see tax rebates for companies that hire more U.S. workers in relation to company earnings so companies are incentivized to hire U.S. workers maximally rather than replacing them with overseas workers, illegal immigrants, or automation.

The reason that our tax code is so complicated is because Congress's powers are limited to those enumerated in the Constitution. Accordingly, Congress uses its power to tax (and to avoid taxing) in order to set policy on things that are not within its power to legislate directly.

In short, if you are in favor of using tax policy to encourage people/corporations/states to do things, you should not be surprised that tax law is complicated.

other example would be the homosexual hate crimes laws that are allowing pastors to be sued for not performing gay weddings, photographers for not photographing gay weddings, and doctors for not performing in vitro fertilization on lesbian couples.

Picture yourself in a boat on a river; with tangerine trees and marmalade skies.

As if that stuff happens. You cannot even sue a pastor for refusing to perform an interracial marriage. Pastors here in North Carolina spew hate regarding homosexuals from the pulpit on a regular basis.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison


This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by Jzyehoshua, posted 05-29-2012 1:35 AM Jzyehoshua has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(4)
Message 201 of 206 (664302)
05-30-2012 9:51 PM
Reply to: Message 189 by Jzyehoshua
05-29-2012 1:30 AM


Re: No need to distinguish organizations
We should simply put issues like abortion or homosexuality or evolution to a vote and let the people decide.

Right on Dude.

I've always thought that 2*pi + e ought to equal exactly nine instead of being only approximately so. Let's vote on that too. What the heck, let's just let pi = 3.

While an organization can usurp government as a dictatorship, because it involves power in the hands of a few, it is far more difficult to do so with a direct democracy where organizations are not given this power but all may vote on an issue.

Seriously, one of the reasons we have a constitution, a bill of rights, and a fourteenth amendment is so that a bunch of people don't get together and decide to tyrannize whatever unpopular group they want to. I don't trust YOU enough to be in favor of an unlimited direct democracy.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison


This message is a reply to:
 Message 189 by Jzyehoshua, posted 05-29-2012 1:30 AM Jzyehoshua has not yet responded

  
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