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Author Topic:   Straightforward, hard-to-answer-questions about the Bible/Christianity
Flyer75
Member (Idle past 2424 days)
Posts: 242
From: Dayton, OH
Joined: 02-15-2010


Message 278 of 477 (559177)
05-07-2010 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 276 by Woodsy
05-07-2010 8:39 AM


Woodsy writes:
I think the most important question in an apologetics course would be "How do you know that is true?", clearly stated and thoroughly followed up
Well, that's the million dollar question isn't it? If just one person could prove beyond a reasonable doubt and without question that their side was right, we wouldn't be here discussing this.
Christians (those that actually care to sit down and read that is) believe that the Bible is true based on evidence. Now, immediately I'm going to get, "show me the evidence" on here. I can't sit down and type out 600 pages (nor would I plagerize authors) on the compounding evidence for Scripture and Christianity. Tons of authors have already done this including Schaeffer and McDowell to name a few. I'm reading "Evidence for Christianity" right now and McDowell makes a compelling case. It's more then enough evidence to hold up in a court of law (unless your the one jurist that just doesn't "believe") There isn't one "gotcha" piece of evidence out there....for either side. There is doubt in evolution also but getting anyone around here to admit that is just shy of a miracle....there is faith involved in science and evolution, such as the "point of singularity" theory, in the sense that the origins of life, from an evolutionary standpoint, CANNOT be hypothesized and reproduced over and over using the scientific method, thus it takes a "step of faith", which always leaves room for doubt.
Edited by Flyer75, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 276 by Woodsy, posted 05-07-2010 8:39 AM Woodsy has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 279 by Huntard, posted 05-07-2010 10:14 AM Flyer75 has replied
 Message 280 by Huntard, posted 05-07-2010 10:14 AM Flyer75 has not replied
 Message 281 by PaulK, posted 05-07-2010 10:26 AM Flyer75 has replied
 Message 282 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-07-2010 10:29 AM Flyer75 has replied
 Message 289 by Percy, posted 05-07-2010 10:44 AM Flyer75 has not replied
 Message 291 by Huntard, posted 05-07-2010 10:55 AM Flyer75 has not replied

Flyer75
Member (Idle past 2424 days)
Posts: 242
From: Dayton, OH
Joined: 02-15-2010


Message 283 of 477 (559182)
05-07-2010 10:31 AM
Reply to: Message 281 by PaulK
05-07-2010 10:26 AM


Yes PaulK, his evidence would stand up...why? Because in a court of law you don't have to have a piece of "gotcha" evidence or the smoking gun (although it helps if you do). I testify in court every week and the evidence used to indict somebody or to find somebody guilty rarely has a smoking gun piece of evidence. The "case" is built upon mounds of evidence. I've seen suspects found guilty when the prosecution could never produce the BODY!!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 281 by PaulK, posted 05-07-2010 10:26 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 284 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-07-2010 10:34 AM Flyer75 has replied
 Message 290 by PaulK, posted 05-07-2010 10:47 AM Flyer75 has not replied
 Message 296 by dwise1, posted 05-07-2010 4:39 PM Flyer75 has replied

Flyer75
Member (Idle past 2424 days)
Posts: 242
From: Dayton, OH
Joined: 02-15-2010


Message 285 of 477 (559184)
05-07-2010 10:35 AM
Reply to: Message 282 by Dr Adequate
05-07-2010 10:29 AM


DA,
You are right on the talking snake thing. BUT, if one can prove that things in the NT are true are other parts of the OT that might seem stretchy by natural law standards, then one can believe other parts of the Bible where we just don't have the proof.
And you're shaking your head about the origin of life question....prove it to me then. Can you? With evolution...prove it. You cannot. You will do exactly as I am doing. You will use scientific explanations that we DO KNOW for sure about certain things and extrapolate them to the past and say, "it's logical that this started somehow" but you can't prove it directly.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 282 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-07-2010 10:29 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 293 by hooah212002, posted 05-07-2010 12:20 PM Flyer75 has not replied
 Message 301 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-07-2010 9:22 PM Flyer75 has not replied

Flyer75
Member (Idle past 2424 days)
Posts: 242
From: Dayton, OH
Joined: 02-15-2010


Message 286 of 477 (559187)
05-07-2010 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 279 by Huntard
05-07-2010 10:14 AM


Huntard,
Here's what we can do. I'll start a new thread on the evidences of christianity. The thread might get lengthy but I'll go through McDowell's book and do as you requested. I'll pick some of the stronger pieces of evidence (some are certainly stronger then others) and you or DA or whoever wants can refute and we'll go back and forth. I just hope I get some help from my side on this as I'm sure I'll be bombarded from every angle.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 279 by Huntard, posted 05-07-2010 10:14 AM Huntard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 292 by Huntard, posted 05-07-2010 10:58 AM Flyer75 has not replied
 Message 294 by hooah212002, posted 05-07-2010 12:24 PM Flyer75 has not replied

Flyer75
Member (Idle past 2424 days)
Posts: 242
From: Dayton, OH
Joined: 02-15-2010


Message 288 of 477 (559189)
05-07-2010 10:44 AM
Reply to: Message 284 by Dr Adequate
05-07-2010 10:34 AM


Yes, you do, but that admissible evidence could be as simple as a "witness" that you get to testify that is either confused in what they saw or is completely lying to begin with.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 284 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-07-2010 10:34 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 303 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-07-2010 9:28 PM Flyer75 has not replied

Flyer75
Member (Idle past 2424 days)
Posts: 242
From: Dayton, OH
Joined: 02-15-2010


Message 297 of 477 (559218)
05-07-2010 4:50 PM
Reply to: Message 296 by dwise1
05-07-2010 4:39 PM


DW1,
Thanks for a well thought out response.
Again, McDowell doesn't present his evidence (in the first few chapters of any of his books) as being spiritual or supernatural evidence, but historical evidence only that stands up to history.
For example, the book of Jeremiah. the Lachish Letters, complete verify the events of the battles in that book. Now, that's one tiny example but McDowell lays out evidence after evidence that even secular historians have verified and he quotes them. Now, if all these evidences exists for the historicity of the events of the Bible, then one can logically and with some reason, along with faith, believe the rest of the Bible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 296 by dwise1, posted 05-07-2010 4:39 PM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 299 by PaulK, posted 05-07-2010 5:10 PM Flyer75 has not replied
 Message 300 by dwise1, posted 05-07-2010 5:45 PM Flyer75 has not replied

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