Straightforward, hard-to-answer-questions about the Bible/Christianity

Great point. But I am assuming that Artemis is a Christian and fully accepting that the stories are true. Edited by hERICtic, : No reason given.

You are asking questions that are not specific, nor that answerable, are they rhtorical?
but I will bite anyway. Those taken may have been allowed to leave eventually, often times indetered servitude and slavery were equated to be the same thing, its hard to say as it is not very clear.I think the hebrews more than likey were slaves in some form of the Egyptians, though contrary to popular presentation slaves could not have built the great pyramids, that was obviously completed by extremely skilled labor.Did women taken have a choice? Probably not, but thier other option was probably starving to death, I am unsure that they may have wanted it another way. Native Americans used this method as well, and intime the captured were integrated into the tribe as fully functioning memebers.You have still failed to answer my question of what does this OT stuff have to do with Jesus, and him dying for our sins. Well I am Roman Catholic. Its hard to admit christian anymore with what I know about these protestant philosophies. Sola scriptura is not part of my belief if that what you are assuming.

I think you replied to the wrong message since you don't quote my post anywhere, but I will attempt to reply in the vein of your inquiry. Most likely, considering they are most likely about fictional events. Does it matter? I would argue that slavery for any period of time is still slavery; rape for any period of time is still rape. Obviously slavery or rape for shorter periods of time is better, but the point still stands. If God orders rape or slavery, for any period of time, he is responsible for those acts. Why do you think they were slaves in some form? What evidence do you have in support of this belief? Thats what happens when you kill all the males, not just those involved in battle or even capable of warfare. Societies can suffer through great losses in war but the purposeful genocide of killing all men, no matter their age, is intentionally directed at destroying the society itself.God ordering such actions makes him responsible for the Catch 22 of starvation or rape/slavery. An omnipotent entity cannot avoid responsibility. Everything! Jesus is only important because he fulfills prophecies in the Old Testament; "Christ" is a title, not a name. Jesus is only important because he is the son and also the same being as the deity introduced in the Old Testament; if we remove the OT, nobody has any idea what he means when he claims to be the "son of God". Jesus's death is only significant because it forgives violations of the laws of a deity introduced in the Old Testament; what are sins if that background doesn't exist?The Old Testament stuff is crucial to the story of Jesus, especially because Jesus is claimed to be the same entity as God to some extent. If the OT God supports slavery, so does Jesus. If the OT God supports rape, so does Jesus.If the Old Testament God is a bloodthirsty, rage-filled, despicable monster of a deity who cares only for the subservience of a single tribe of humans and even less for everyone else... so is Jesus. Dang, I'm sorry.Say, do you consider the Pope as being infallible? Thats always good for a laugh.

oops. I totally did, i meant to respond to herictic. blonde moment. If God's followers have free will then God is free from blame as his followers have the option to disobey him as they do through sin every hour of every day. I like the Moses story. Evidence is unesscessary for belief.

quote:

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We can't have full knowledge all at once. We must start by believing; then afterwards we may be led on to master the evidence for ourselves-- Thomas Aquinas, 13th century

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Free will is the avoidance to resposibility. You are not the 1st nor tha last to try and catch the All Mighty, in something like that. This debate has been going on for 1500+ years. Nope. That is incorrect. Its obvious that one you either cannot comprehend the infallible doctrine, or you are not being serious, and just try to make a joke, so I'll plead the 5th on this one.

You are not a trinitarian?You might want to try to explain why you think the poster is incorrect, rather than just make an unevidenced statement. Just a suggestion.

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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

I am not an apologetic, i was merely stating my beliefs.
I don't need evidence, but I will pray that you can find whatever you need, for your own beliefs.

Please don't offend me by praying to your sky god for me. I neither want it or need it.You religious people amaze me at your insistence on claiming others are wrong, but you feel you have no need to offer an explanation or a reason a person is wrong.
It must be a heavy weight knowing all the secrets of life and existence.

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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

God is not in the sky.I already explained that it is not knowledge but belief, I am sorry you cannot understand the difference, and I must rephrase it over and over again.I don't kow what your agenda is, but your strawmen are fairly weak.

What is the strawman? All I want you to do is to explain your justification for telling someone they are wrong and then feeling you do not have to explain why you claim they are wrong.You seem to expect others to jsut accept what you say without question. You think your belief and faith gives you some sort of insight that we should all accept unquestioningly.You ahve not given any reasoning for claiming someone is wrong all you said was they are wrong. Even apologetics gives a reason. Usually lame reasons but reason nontheless.Unless you are willing to back up your statements with reason no one here is going to take you seriously

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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

just about everything you say that I am saying, when I am saying nothing of the sort. you are choosing what you want me to say so that you can argue against my position (that you just made up). Maybe I am mistaken, but I thought that was a strawman. finally you add a "seem" to your thoughts rather than straight up telling me my position, like in your previous posts today. but no i do not. oh dangit there you go again. How much straw do you have over there in Wisconsin? I never said anything of the sort, and explained myself twice already, lulz. I would prefer to answer Phage0070, on my reasons and claims, because so far I can tell that you will just twist anything that I say into what you want me to be saying. I am not an apologetic (but you would know this if you read my earlier post). are they as lame as your strawmen? LULZ, like I take you and your strawmanning seriously?

.Then I asked for reasoning. Which you continue to refuse to do. I still do not see the strawman.Oh well I guess I have to realize that you will just expect others take you beliefs unquestioningly.I still want to know how you can separate Jesus from the actions of the cruel Old Testament mountain god.

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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

Why is that offensive? That probably describes most people, not just the religious.

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"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from mistaken conviction." — Blaise Pascal

Artie,Food for thought:If you want to share the love of God, you might want to stop being condescending. Tends to invalidate your testimony and push people further away.

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"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from mistaken conviction." — Blaise Pascal

Because it is a condescending self-righteous thing to say.Ask any of the agnostics and atheists on this board for an explanation or a reason for their statements and most will gladly provide one. It is only the self righteous religious who feel they do not have to justify their statements.

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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

The biblical God has shown a clear policy of punishing behavior against his will regardless of the morality or intentions behind those actions. Ordering unethical actions puts believers between a rock and a hard place; they either obey God and behave unethically, or disobey God and be punished for sinful actions.Do you think God will reward people for obeying his unethical orders? If I can spin you a more attractive story than that of Moses, would you believe it considering evidence is unnecessary? Also, can you name another area of your life which you find evidence unnecessary for belief other than religious faith? A paraplegic's free will to walk is not impaired, their ability to walk is impaired. My free will to desire at-will flight like Superman is not restricted, my ability to do so is restricted.Similarly if I observed a man raping a woman, and I had the means at my disposal to stop him, I would not be impairing the free will of the rapist. I would however be impairing his ability to perform that crime. For me to stand by and do nothing makes me to some extent morally culpable in that rape.In this same way, a god that is all-powerful would certainly have the ability to restrict the ability of humans to perform evil acts against others without restricting their free will. Having this ability places that god firmly in the moral picture with every evil action committed. Please elaborate. Do you not consider them part of the same entity, or that they are separate faces which don't share the same traits? Here is the punchline: If God never changes his mind but upholds the edicts of the Pope in heaven, what happens when a Pope changes his mind, or different Pope's contradict each other?