EvC Forum: Did God say it, or did you say it?

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Topic: Did God say it, or did you say it?

ICANT

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Message 9 of 127 (548025)
02-25-2010 12:09 AM

Reply to: Message 1 by killinghurts
02-22-2010 9:49 PM

Re:Literal

Hi killinghurts,

killinghurts writes:

The general consensus from believers (excluding Y.E.Cs) is, in cases where the true meaning is not the literal one (like the Earth was created in 6 days), one must take the context in which the passage was made in order to interpret the true meaning of the passage.

The heavens an the earth existed prior to Genesis 1:2 therefore the 6 day theory is false.

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

God Bess,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

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	Message 1 by killinghurts, posted 02-22-2010 9:49 PM		killinghurts has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 10 by killinghurts, posted 02-25-2010 1:11 AM	ICANT has replied
	Message 15 by greyseal, posted 02-25-2010 9:57 AM	ICANT has replied

ICANT

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Message 19 of 127 (548136)
02-25-2010 6:48 PM

Reply to: Message 10 by killinghurts
02-25-2010 1:11 AM

Re: Literal

Hi killinghurts,

killinghurts writes:

Hi ICANT, this thread is not so much about whether the 6 day theory is true or false, more about what methods are used to "interpret" what God actually meant when the passage was written.

And you think I did not present the methods the Bible is interpeted.

I quoted what God said.

You gave an opinion of what God said.

killinghurts writes:

I could just as readily say "Genesis 1:1 all happened instantaneously at the click of God's fingers ", therefore justifying the 6 day theory as a literal interpretation.

That is exactly the way the Bible is interpeted.

Some believe what God said.

Most disagree and suppose that is not what God really meant. Then they give their idea of what He meant.

killinghurts writes:

But would I be correct? How do I know that my belief is correct?

You could start by entering a class of Biblical Hebrew which is a dead language. Spend four years studying it and learning it. If you were really serious you could study for 6 years then practice it for about 40 years.

Then you would not have to ask anyone or doubt your conclusions.

God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

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	Message 10 by killinghurts, posted 02-25-2010 1:11 AM		killinghurts has not replied

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	Message 26 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-27-2010 4:32 PM		ICANT has replied

ICANT

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Message 20 of 127 (548137)
02-25-2010 6:54 PM

Reply to: Message 15 by greyseal
02-25-2010 9:57 AM

Re: Re:Literal

Hi greyseal,

greyseal writes:

Nice idea, but I don't see the proof of that - is it not possible that genesis 1:1 is merely the opener explaining genesis 1:2 and onwards? meaning that god created "the heavens and the earth" but that it took 6 "days" to do it to completion?

What existed at Genesis 1:2?

God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

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	Message 15 by greyseal, posted 02-25-2010 9:57 AM		greyseal has replied

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	Message 21 by greyseal, posted 02-26-2010 1:51 AM		ICANT has replied

ICANT

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Message 24 of 127 (548223)
02-26-2010 9:37 AM

Reply to: Message 21 by greyseal
02-26-2010 1:51 AM

Re:Literal

Hi greyseal,

greyseal writes:

The earth was "without form, and void" - it's fair to say it didn't exist, it wasn't "formed".

Help me to understand how:

The earth

was without form and void

If it did not exist.

God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

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	Message 21 by greyseal, posted 02-26-2010 1:51 AM		greyseal has replied

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	Message 57 by greyseal, posted 03-02-2010 4:09 AM		ICANT has not replied

ICANT

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Message 37 of 127 (548606)
02-28-2010 4:33 PM

Reply to: Message 33 by Flyer75
02-28-2010 9:33 AM

Re: actually...it's not that simple

Hi Flyer,

Flyer75 writes:

Since Genesis doesn't come out and say, "BTW guys, the word "day" used in these verses means a literal 24 hour solar day" we have to take more then one thing into account when determining if it means this or not.

Every day in Genesis chapter 1 was a 24 hour day except the first day.

You can only get 12 hours from evening until morning which constituted the first day.

That is unless you had a light period prior to the evening. That light period would have started in Genesis 1:1 when the heavens and the earth was created. The day refered to in Genesis 2:4.

Can there be an evening without a day?

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

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	Message 33 by Flyer75, posted 02-28-2010 9:33 AM		Flyer75 has not replied

ICANT

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Message 40 of 127 (548613)
02-28-2010 5:11 PM

Reply to: Message 26 by Hyroglyphx
02-27-2010 4:32 PM

Re: Literal

777Hi Hyroglyphx,

Hyroglyphx writes:

It's not a matter of believing what God said, it's a matter of trying to understand how or what Moses (or whomever the author was) was trying to convey.

What makes you think Moses was trying to convey anything?

Moses was in God's presence for 40 days. I doubt if they were playing chess.

Hyroglyphx writes:

I assume you agree that the bible often uses allegory and imagery to convey a point that was never intended to be literal.

Or should we expect you to start telling mountains to the throw themselves in to the oceans based on Jesus' instructions?

I am a literalist.

I don't have enough faith to tell a mountains to remove itself into the sea. That would require as much faith as believing all this just happened.

Hyroglyphx writes:

Besides we don't know if God said anything. Just because someone claims to be speaking on behalf of God,

There are several witnesses that heard Him speak in an audible voice.

But a person that can not believe Genesis 1:1 would not accept their testimony as reliable.

Hyroglyphx writes:

Taking the authority of the bible on account of itself is obviously circular, so these are valid questions.

I have seen this argument several times.

But the Bible is not a book. It is a collection of 66 books that was written by some forty different writters on three continents, in three languages over a period of 1500 years.

So explain to me what is circular about what it says.

God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

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	Message 26 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-27-2010 4:32 PM		Hyroglyphx has replied

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	Message 44 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-28-2010 5:41 PM		ICANT has not replied

ICANT

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Message 51 of 127 (548653)
02-28-2010 9:41 PM

Reply to: Message 45 by Peg
02-28-2010 5:45 PM

Re: actually...it's not that simple

Hi Peg,

Peg writes:

YOM does not stand for a specific length of time. It is a word to describe time in general....nothing specific.

Peg would you please explain to me why your definition of day is better than the one God gave in Genesis 1:5?

Peg writes:

you know i love a challenge :wink:

Genesis 1:5 'the light he called day' The 12 hour period is called a day
Genesis 2:4 'in the day that God created the heaven and earth' All the days are called 1 day.
Isaiah 1:1 'in the days of Uzziah, Jothan, Ahaz, Hezekiah' the lifetimes of 4 consecutive kings.
2Peter 3:7 'the day of judgement' which is a 1,000 year period

Number 1

Moses writes:

Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

God called the light portion day.

God called the darkness night.

God called the one light portion and one dark portion day.

God was very specifc.

Nmber 2

Moses writes:

Gen 2:4 These [are] the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

The heavens and the earth was created in Genesis 1:1. Which was a completed action that was declared to have taken place.

Therefore "in the day" spoken of has nothing to do with all the days in Genesis 1:8 through Genesis 2:3.

Number 3
What does the days of Uzziah have to do with the length of a day?
What does the days of Jothan, have to do with the length of a day?
What does the days of Ahaz have to do with the length of a day?
What does the days of Hezekiah have to do with the length of a day?

Number 4

Peter writes:

2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Where does that say that the day of judgment is 1000 years long.

Oh I know what you use.

Peter writes:

2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Where does that verse say a day is the same as a thousand years?
Where does that verse say a thousand years is the same as a day?

It does say that as far as God is concerned they are the same but God is not a creature of time He does not experience time.

God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
	Message 45 by Peg, posted 02-28-2010 5:45 PM		Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 53 by Peg, posted 02-28-2010 10:04 PM		ICANT has replied

ICANT

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Posts: 6769

From: SSC

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Message 54 of 127 (548666)
02-28-2010 10:39 PM

Reply to: Message 53 by Peg
02-28-2010 10:04 PM

Re: actually...it's not that simple

Hi Peg,

Peg writes:

We cannot honestly say that Moses meant 24hours when he used the word Yom to describe the creation of the earth.

Moses did not have to mean anything he just wrote what God told him to write.

A 24 hour day is a concept of man that he came up with to say how long the light portion and darkness portion of a day was.

God plainly said a light period and a darkness period was a day.

Do you agree or disagree with what God told Moses to write?

Why should I accept what some man said over what God said?

God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
	Message 53 by Peg, posted 02-28-2010 10:04 PM		Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 55 by Peg, posted 03-01-2010 12:27 AM	ICANT has not replied
	Message 59 by greyseal, posted 03-02-2010 4:36 AM	ICANT has not replied

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