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Author Topic:   Is Jesus God?
Phage0070
Inactive Member


Message 200 of 492 (551257)
03-22-2010 5:30 AM
Reply to: Message 199 by Dawn Bertot
03-21-2010 12:54 PM


Re: Sin is lawlessness
EMA writes:
Your expression, "with a sin nature" can only be applied to those that have the ability to comprehend something for it to be wrong in the first place. No where in scripture is it stated that infants or toddlers have sin (lawlessness) when they are born or directly after
Excuse me for jumping in here, but are you saying that people cannot be considered to sin if they don't know what they are doing is wrong?
This is an interesting standpoint, because it should lead to some rather non-intuitive behaviors. If sin is the violation of God's laws, then the best way to make sure someone does not sin would be to ensure that they are ignorant of God and his laws. If they are made aware of the laws then they can either accept God or reject him, leading to a less than 100% rate of saving. If they are ignorant of the laws then, as you said, they cannot be blamed for not following them.
This also means that a 100% saved rate could be achieved by killing infants before they are capable of understanding God's laws. The only reason a believer wouldn't do this is because murder is a sin, but a believer has already admitted to being a sinner without hope of redeeming him/herself. Committing a murder for selfless reasons and then truly repenting would surely be more moral than refraining and possibly allowing someone to be damned for eternity, right?
It seems that these issues are what fuel the doctrine of 'Sinful Nature', basically cutting those workarounds off at the pass. Each side of the fence has problems though; if you think people cannot be blamed for sin they don't understand then you have the aforementioned problems, and if you think everyone is sinful by nature and must understand and accept salvation then you have infants and those ignorant of the message going to Hell for no fault of their own.
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein.
AdminPD
Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

This message is a reply to:
 Message 199 by Dawn Bertot, posted 03-21-2010 12:54 PM Dawn Bertot has replied

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 Message 203 by Dawn Bertot, posted 03-22-2010 11:38 AM Phage0070 has not replied

  
Phage0070
Inactive Member


Message 214 of 492 (551901)
03-25-2010 4:54 AM
Reply to: Message 213 by Peg
03-25-2010 1:48 AM


Re: Jesus WAS God in earliest NT teaching
Peg writes:
He did not believe he was equal with God at all.
How does this mesh with Matthew 28:18? : "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth." (King James Version)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by Peg, posted 03-25-2010 1:48 AM Peg has replied

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 Message 215 by Peg, posted 03-25-2010 6:56 AM Phage0070 has not replied

  
Phage0070
Inactive Member


Message 235 of 492 (552579)
03-29-2010 10:51 PM
Reply to: Message 234 by Peg
03-29-2010 9:44 PM


Re: Jesus WAS God in earliest NT teaching
Peg writes:
if God has appeared in human form, the OT should contain an account of it.
If you believe that he appeard as Jesus, then why has he not appeard to Isreal in the form of a man? You wont find anywhere in the OT where he has done so.
Frankly, the Old Testament is a bit schizophrenic about the whole issue. For instance:
Exodus 33:20 - "And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live."
Compared to:
Exodus 33:11 - "And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle."
These are two verses within the same chapter which directly contradict each other on the subject of God appearing to people. In fact God is directly telling Moses that he cannot see his face, despite the earlier passage saying that they spoke face-to-face.
Whatever the eventual conclusion of what is going on in that scene, the point is clear that biblical support for any interpretation is going to be extremely difficult to take seriously no matter how clear the language. Was God in human form? He has a face and loins "ever upward" and "ever downward" (Ezekiel 1:27) which have been seen, but also has not and cannot ever be seen (1 Timothy 6:16).
As with most of the Bible, pick an interpretation that pleases you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by Peg, posted 03-29-2010 9:44 PM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 236 by Peg, posted 03-29-2010 11:07 PM Phage0070 has not replied

  
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