Is Jesus God?

I believe you asked Peg that. You are making excuses. You're saying its MORE important that they condemned Jesus for claiming to be the son of god, then god himself?????? Thats absurd! We are all sons of god. They were looking for an excuse to condemn him! All that had to do was claim that he called himself god. Yet no one did. Not the High Priest. Not the council. Not those who witnessed Jesus preaching. Not the false witnesses.Why? Easy. Jesus never claimed to be god. Not once. They didnt stone him for saying "I am", as much as you want to twist scripture.It makes no sense that Jesus stated "Before Abraham, god". Absolutely no sense at all. It makes perfect sense for Jesus to claim before Abraham, he existed. Neither has anything to do with Jesus. Context. Unless you want to throw out the usual "dual meaning", the safety net when context rears its ugly head.

I also asked why the blind man is not god since he also claimed "I am"? You are adamant that since Jesus in John 8, said "I am", it MUST refer back to Exodus. You refuse to accept any other possibility. This is a perfect example of context. I am (no,I'm not calling myself god) in disbelief. There are hundreds upon hundreds of uses of "I am" throughout the Bible! By hundreds of speakers. Its how one talks when referencing themself! "I am" the first and last does not mean the "I am" is god, its god describing himself. I cannot really believe you just stated this.Before Abraham, god". How does this make any sense. If "I am" is the name of god, then that it the exact response Jesus made. So you admit, its another way of saying god. So then, yes-I am means god. Which again makes no sense. God calls himself I AM in Exodus. Therefore, god =I AM.So it would read, "Before Abraham, god".Have you also noticed the earliest translations have it in lower case? Apparently they didnt believe it refered to god either.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------God made Moses like god. You finally, in between all your assumptions and rudeness, stated he will "appear" as god.
Well, what does that mean then? I'm not sure what you are claiming. God clearly calls Moses god. You admit he is "like" god. So you're not actually addressing the question.Why? What makes Moses like god?-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------So now its six times I have asked the same question...each time ignoring it.Why didnt the High Priest, the Council, the witnesses and the false witnesses claim that Jesus called himself god?What are you afraid of Ema? Six times I have asked you. Is this how you conduct yourself when debating? Are you being honest here?

and as has been discussed, the rendering of the verse 'the word was God' is not in line with the greek'the word was with THE God and the word was god'If one is called THE GOD and the other simply God, then the word is not THE GOD.Besides, your trinity involves 3 beings...father, son, holy spirit. Yet your verse reads 'The Word was with The GOD'Add them up: The Word = 1 and The GOD = 3
Total = 4 The Word & The GOD (father, son and holy spirit)not making much sense is it.

Oh, it has been discussed for many yeasrs. And the evidence of the discussion to most Christian scholars is that people like yourself will go to complicated lengths to deny what the word of God is saying.Can you fluently read and write New Testament Greek?I cannot myself. However, 12 people besides myself hired a professor from the Episcapal Theological School in Cambridge Mass as a tutor in the late 80s. His name was Dr. Eugene Van Ness Goetchius.Dr. Goetichius was the author of the text that we used in his class on Greek. The title of the book was "The Language of the New Testament". Its published by Charles Scribner's Sons, from New York.This man was an expert on New Testament Greek language. In fact he jokingly told us that he thought the best way to learn the New Testament Greek language was to write a text book on it.Anyway, I can assure you that Dr. Goetichus would not agree with you that John 1:1 has two Gods. I can remember him going over the problem is what impressed me as a fair minded and balanced approach showing that the understanding of two Gods in John 1:1 was less likely of the author's intention.Why don't the "Translators" of the Jehovah's Witnesses "New World Translation" identify themselves and their credentials ? I can never see who the "translators" are of this English version of the Bible.I am given the answer that they do not identify themselves because of some profound sense of humility. Frankly, this sounds artificial to me.I think you should have stuck to the 1901 American Standard Bible which Watchtower Society use to print and distribute. At least in your former championed version one chould see who the translators were.Furthermore, that version clearly revealed that the teaching of a difference between Jehovah the Almighty God and the Mighty God was proved to be an error.Jehovah is the Mighty God - " ... the great, the mighty God, Jehovah of hosts is his name ... ( Jeremiah 32:18 1901 ASV ) "The Mighty One, God, Jehovah, hath spoken." (Psalm 50:1 1901 ASV ) "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder; and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace ..." (Isaiah 9:6, 1901 ASV )So the Apostle John confirms that the Word that was with God, the Mighty God, was the Mighty God and was incarnated. The Word became flesh and tabernacled among us - [b]"( and we beheld his glory, glory as of an only begotten from the Father ), full of grace and truth." (John 1:14b 1901 ASV).This child - "the Mighty God," and this Son - the " Everlasting Father" has been "unto us".I am afraid that though He has been unto you you have rejected Him. And as we have received grace and truth from this One I am afraid that you have not received anything from this One because you have not received Him.You have instead trusted in your arithematic. Too bad. "But as many as received him, to them gave he the right to become children of God, even to them that believe on his name ...who were born ... of God " (v. 12 1901 ASV ) Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

And this, as every Biblical scholar will attest, has nothing to do with Jesus whatsoever - Christians love the sound of it, but any half-wit who can read can tell by the context exactly what is going on here.

You don't want to answer about an indwelling Michael the angel? Okay, we'll leave that to Peg. I don't know if you are a Russell student of the Watchtower theology. I said that we do not derive our beliefs about Christ solely based upon what was charged at His one or more trials.Going over each trial would be an interesting study, as to what He was accused of. But the matter of Jesus being God incarnated does not stand or fall upon what He was accused of at a trial.The charges are informative. But the accumulated teaching of the Gospels is more significant.For example, here we see Jesus claiming to be the God of the Old Testament who hovered as a protective bird over Jerusalem: "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I desired to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not! " (Matthew 23:37) It was always God Himself who cared for Jeerusalem, as a bird flutters over her young (Isa. 31:5; Deut. 32:11-12). So when the Lord Jesus said, "I desired to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her brood under her wings," He indicated that He was God Himself.I repeat again, the New Testament is careful that we do not make the mistake that because Jesus is God He must not be a man. He is God and man mingled. In the following verse to v.23 He says "Behold, your house is left to you desolate. For I say to you, You shall by no menas see Me from now on until you say, Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord." (v.38,39) This passage reveals that Jesus Christ was the God of the Old Testament who was the bird like protector over rebellious Israel and He also comes as a man in the name of the Lord. He is both God and man. To the Christians, it is true "You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus" (Gal. 3:26) . The Christians being sons of God is because the only begotten Son of God accomplished a salvation on our behalf. In resurrection He became the Firstborn Son of God and all His brothers have been regenerated through the resurrection of Jesus Christ: "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has regenerated us unto a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead." ( 1 Peter 1:3) The Christians being made sons of God in salvation does not make Christ not God incarnate. Yes, it does place us on a shared status to a great degree. But it does not nullify that the Word Who was with God and was God became flesh.You cannot on one hand use the Christians being regenerated children of God as a tool to deny that God was incarnate in Jesus. And on the other hand you cannot use the Christians being sons of God as proof that they possess the Godhead as the omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent Creators of universes.The word "Son" and "sons" may be used. But there is no confusion over Who is the Source of divine life and who are the recipients of this life through His salvation.The human's need for the Son's salvation proves that He is the Source and not we. You peak my interest to look again at all the trials. However, you have no case by these trials to nullify the incarnation of God in a man Jesus. He is God/man in the Bible.When we look at the speech that Stephen gave in Acts 7 we see him trace much of the history of the confict between Israel and their God. Stephen makes his way through much of the Old Testament history and arrives at a firey conclusion: "But Solomon built Him [God] a house. Yet the Most High does not dwell in that which is made by hands, even as the prophets says, Heaven is My throne, and earth is a footstool for My feet. What kind of house will you build for Me, says the Lord, or what is the place of My rest? Has not My hand made all these things?

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You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in hgearts and ears, you always oppose the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, you also do.

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Which of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? And they killed those who announced beforehand concerning the coming of the righteous One, whose betrayers and murderers you have now become. You who received the law as ordinaces of angels and did not keep it." (Acts 7:48-53)Stephen concludes his review with a reference to Isaiah 66 about the house for God to dwell in. In that passage God says that He will look not to a temple made with hands, much less the starry universe for a dwelling place. Rather He will look to a certain kind of man: "But to this kind of man will I look, to him who is poor and of a contrite spirit, and who trembles at My word," (v.2b)The dwelling of God in a man is strongly implied in Stephen's summary. God arrives on the earth dwelling in a man. And this man is Jesus of Nazareth the virgin born Son of God. Jesus Himself reinforces this revelation by challenging the religionists that if they destroy the temple of His body He will raise it up in three days.For this word about raising the temple of God in three days, they were furious with Him: "Now the chief priests and the whole Sanhedrin were seeling false testimony against Jesus so that they might put Him to death, And they did not find it, though many false witnesses came forward.

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But latter two came and said, This man said, I am able to destroy the temple of God and build it up in three days." (Matt. 26:59-61) This was the last straw to the chief priests. And what follows in Matthew is their insistence that He admit that He is teaching to be the Son of God.The Son of God is the man in whom God dwells. God finds His rest and expression in being mingled with this man. This is the One to Whom God looks - greater than Solomon's temple, greater in fact than the physical heavens and earth. God comes as a man. And He proves it by rising from the dead once "destroyed" seemingly by the religious opposers. Yes Jesus did claim to be God and man. By claiming to be God He did not mean that He was not a man or even was not a created one. God created man according to Genesis 1:26. So for Jesus to call Himself the Son of Man He acknowledges that He is an item of God's creation. Flesh, which the Word became, is undeniably an item of the creation of God.Yet at the same time if He is the God of the Old Testament who hovered protectively over Jerusalem as taught in Matt. 23:37 He is teaching that He is the eternal and uncreated Jehovah - So Jesus teaches that He is God Himself. It makes perfect sense to me. I AM implies that He alone is the very ground of being. Only He is. Only He is self existing and ever existing. God alone "calls things not being as being" (Rom. 4:17).Only He is absolute uncreated Being. I AM THAT I AM was the one who sent Moses. "I AM" also means that He is whatever man needs. He is all-sufficient. What we are not He is able to be. He is the life.He is the divine life of the tree of life. Only God is self existing, self sufficient, ever existing and uncreated. All things derive their dependent being from His absolute being. It has everything to do with Jesus.Who else in human history as a born child better qualifies to be called Mighty God ? Please don't say Hezekiah because I think Hezekiah himself would not admit that.Who else in world history is the Son better qualified to be called Eternal Father ? Please don't say David because I am sure David would say "I am not that good".Isaiah 9:6 is a prophecy that has to point to Jesus Christ. And for Jesus to say that the Father is in Him and He is in the Father and that to see Him is to see the Father, is to confirm He realized that Isaiah was prophesying concerning Himself.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

heritic writes:Forgive me God in heaven, forgive me master Jaywill, for give me Peg and forgive me Heritic, but you Heritic, are probably the single most ignorant person, with which I have ever had an opportunity to have a discussionOh my God, Ive never seen a person dodge an obvious point so blantantly and ignorantly. Jesus said, "I am the the first and the last." Heritic. these are Jesus' words in revelations, they are Gods words in Isa. Do you need a brick to fall on your head?"IAM", is not STRICLY the name of God , Jehovah is Gods name. God is but a single title, IAM is simply another title to reference, Iam that Iam. Look at Exodus 3:14"God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.'"Do you see how the 2 titles are used interchangably in a single sentence. God said..... call me IAM. God is a title for "IAM Who IAM, IAM is another title for, IAm that Iam. Christ chose to use it the same way God did in Exodus 3:14, that is why they wanted to stone him. he knew what he meant and so did the Jews. unbelievable!!!!! it is not another way of saying God,it is another way of saying IAM that Iam. God is a reference to "I am that Iam", "Iam' is a reference to "Iam that Iam", as wellit does not read "God" in John 8, if you use the second title God used, in Exodus 3:14. Your changing it to say something Exodus does not say.God did not say, tell them God has sent you, he used the exprression, IAM has sent you to Moses for the children of Isreal. he used it the same way Christ used it and that is why they wanted to stone him I remember the Bogard-Warlick debate when one of my brethren, Joe S. Warlick was debating the famous baptist Ben M. Bogard. After much frustration he stood up and stated, Mr Bogard I think it is impossible for you to get anything correct. i believe you must be playing the dumb card heritic, for nobody is that ignorant.Do you really need me to answer how Moses is like God when confronting Pharoah in that context. Ive already answered it 5 or six times and you pay no attention Ive already answered this atleast twice now and you pay no attention. it does not matter when they accused him of this, only that they CLEARLY DID several other times. It is of no consequence whether they chose to do this at the MOCK trial, when they had already done it numerous times through his ministryIve already showed you in the context that Jesus never denied being God, he simply used terms that refered to his overall nature, when being charged with being equal with God Sometimes it was the Son of Man, Sometimes Son of God. Then at times HE made it very clear that he was implying he was God, by using the TITLE, IAM.Only blind ignorance and avoidance would deny the fact that jesus used the expression the EXACT same way, God did in exodus 3:14. The passages are so similar that that only a tyro would miss itI further demonstrated by his makeup and nature and by the rest of the NT that he is clearly God.. Please tell me what "I am the first and the Last" means in the context of revelations if it not a refernce to GodThe fact that they did not bring this up at the trial is not an argument against what the rest of what jesus stated and what the rest of the NT says, that jesus is clearly God, that does not make it NOT TRUE because they did not bring it up at the trialYours is an observation NOT A VALID ARGUMENT. There are several insatnces in the Gospels when he was approached and they did not accuse him of making himself equal to God, there are on the other hand, several instances when they did charge him with this accusation.After all of this you make the ridiculous comment that they did not charge him with being God, only that he made himself equal with God. Please, for the love of Pete will you tell me what the difference is. And remember this is in direct response to his use of IAM It demonstrates that if God is refered to as the "first and the last " and Christ is refered to as the "first and the last", in the same context in revelations and Christ boldly uses the same terminology, it demonstrates that no one is like christ and Christ is God.This single passage destroys all of the JWs idiocy and contentions concerning whether jesus was actually God or not. You can have Cavedivers approval and Ill take Johns and Christs intimations and direct statements concerning Christ.Youve still yet to demonstrate how from scripture Christ is not God. Youve still yet to demonstrate any characteristic God has that Christ does not as is firmly attested to in scripture. Youve still yet to provide man or angel with the same characteristics of deity as ascribed to Christ. youve lost this debate on that point aloneEAMEdited by EMA, : No reason given.Edited by EMA, : No reason given.

Sorry I did not see this earlier or I most certainly would have responded to it.here we have an example of a man that lives in constant fear of this life and the afterlife. He is so afraid that this may be true that he constantly monitors issues that to a real skeptic like Modulous, would really make no difference one one way or another. Notice how he has to explain to us what HE thinks should matter to God. Another sure sign he is trying once again in desparation hope against all hope he is correct, because if he is not he knows what the consequences areNotice also, after his very careful observations (about matters that should not really matter to him) how he has to reassure US (really himself) that he thinks its all crap anyway. this is asure sign of his spinless nature and constant fear residing within himselfYou make me sick, because you are a doubleminded, blown by the wind putz, that cant really make a decision in your own mind.quit living in fear cavediver and choose a side, you doubleminded dog, returning to his own vomit. if old age is causing you that much confusion, simply make a choice and be done with itEAMEdited by EMA, : No reason given.Edited by EMA, : No reason given.Edited by EMA, : No reason given.

oh EMA, you sad tool. Take a look at my avatar, then check my name again. I've spent my life sailing so close to death, you'd drown in your own shit if you tried it. I once spent half an hour knowing I was going to die, never going to see my wife again, never going to see my child's birth. Guess how much of that 30 minutes I spent praying and worrying about the "afterlife" Not matter to me??? I was a fucking evangelical Christian for over twenty years - or is it convenient for you to forget that? I probably spent more time preaching and leading bible study than you've spent "saved". Of course this shit matters to me - I lived and breathed it for half of my life. And as a Christian what I learned to hate was the shit that Christians read into the OT (and NT to a lesser degree) to bolster their own misguided theology. In the end I was not prepared to say "and we can ready into this passage that this obviously means this" when it blatently did not - such as the Titus passages I discussed earlier and Isaiah just now.So, now that you've embarrassed youself in your own drool, why not crawl back to Jesus - he'd be so proud of the post you've just mailed

Since you are dishonest about why this stuff is so important to you (or unimportant to you as you represent it to us) , there is no reason to believe that which you speak about above is not also exaggerated and also the thoughts you had while this alleged scenerio was taking place.Since you are the one always asking for hard evidence, what evidence would you provide to me, what your thoughts were during this alledged situation, outside of your word.Since you will not take the words of Christ or the Apostles on these matters, why should i take your word or what you say your thoughs were during this alledged situationSince you can provide me with no hard evidence as to your thoughts and concerns, you story is just that, A STORY, correctStill want to bandy words with me? Interesting you have now confirmed to everyone that within your heart of hearts, you still believe it in the recesses of your mind. That is, as, a beautiful a testimony as I have ever heard.You are not past the point of no return, as some here clearly are CD, but you are close . Just come home, there is no shame and the father will be waiting, as is indicated in the story of the prodigal son. he is still watching and waiting for you to resume those Bible lessons that you still have within you.Your interest and words give you away.Good luck in the water and in the futureEAMEdited by EMA, : No reason given.

Cavediver writes:What? you went scooba diving and got yourself caught between a rock and a hard placeLook out Gulf War veterans we have a real hero on our hands here fellasMaybe if you werent trying to film yourself and dive at the same time this would not have happenedJust kidding CDEAMEdited by EMA, : No reason given.

What, to a group that has people such as you as associates? Who the hell would want that? I must say, we get some of the worst ambassadors for Christianity at EvC, but you really sink to new lows. But then, I guess you're only doing what Jesus would do... right?

Paul said in galatians, rather harshly, Oh FOOLISH Galatians. I marvel that you are so soon removed from the truth, but because I chatise you and tell you the truth you become my enemyif it will get you home, yes CD i will do what I need to within the scripturesGood luck BROTHEREAMEdited by EMA, : No reason given.

heritic writes:
I am (no,I'm not calling myself god) in disbelief. There are hundreds upon hundreds of uses of "I am" throughout the Bible! By hundreds of speakers. Its how one talks when referencing themself! "I am" the first and last does not mean the "I am" is god, its god describing himself. I cannot really believe you just stated this.
Before Abraham, god". How does this make any sense. If "I am" is the name of god, then that it the exact response Jesus made. I have no idea how Peg or anyone else for that matter has the patience to deal with you. You're all over the place.We were discussing "I AM". You the made the claim I AM is in other places to show Jesus is god. I asked you to show me.You then proceeded to throw in I AM THE FIRST AND LAST. How did I dodge anything? I addressed it. Ignorant? I have correct you ever step of the way. Most of the time you refuse to answer questions and most other times you throw around answers which have nothing to do with the question. I AM THE FIRST AND LAST has nothing to do with I AM. Nothing. This is a perfect example. I know all this. I have NEVER claimed otherwise. Its a title for god.Every time you throw out an insult, you have been proven wrong. Do I really need to go post by post to show this? I asked one question earlier WHY MOSES WAS CALLED GOD..and you threw out a ton of responses, scripture...which NEVER addressed the question. You made assumptions and created strawman arguments which never dealt with the issue. Wrong. First, you have no evidence that the Jews believed Jesus called himself god. I have already shown that the High Council, the High priest, the witnesses and the false witnesses NEVER accused him of this when they had th opportunity. This is exactly why you ignored this question SIX times!!!! Which is ANOTHER way of calling the name of god!14 God said to Moses, "I am who I am . [b] This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.' "Who is I AM??????? God. I cannot believe you are arguing this point. I AM is another name for god! Holy geez. YOU claimed Jesus was calling himself god in John 8. Why? Bc of I AM. Then when I point out its another name for god, you argue with me that it isnt. No, John 8 does not read "god". But its YOU who claims it refers back to god, bc I AM is god.How utterly confused are you? Are you that adamant about winning a debate you'll throw out anything? LMAO! I AM is god!I can go to any Christian site who believes Jesus is god, and they all state I AM is god!You are so confused with your own arguments you contradict yourself.Before Abraham, I am.You want this to mean Jesus claiming to be god. Why? Bc I AM is the name of god.So I show you, it makes no sense to claim Before Abraham, god.You then turn around and claim I AM isnt the name of god.Wow. You still cannot even answer the question! You throw around insults yet avoid every question that would contradict your point. You have yet to show any evidence against my claims. Repeating something over and over does not make it true.I came back on this thread, with one question regarding Moses, we are now how many posts later...and you STILL have not answered it. No you havent answered it as asked. You've assumed why I was asking the question, then built your responses around what you thought I was trying to imply.I'll make it simpler for you.Did Moses gain any special abilities from god? Yes or no? Show me the post where you answered this. MOCK trial???? It was this very sincere trial which paved the path for eveything else! Now you're lying.The trial clearly stated they were looking for a reason to condemn him. No greater excuse to find fault with him then for them to state Jesus claimed to be god. Yet they NEVER brought this up. They even had to bring in false witnesses! LMAO! You throw around insults, yet your very comments make you look the fool. No, they're not the same. Not even close. Heck, your very own words contradict each other. First you claim they're the exact, then you state they're similiar. Similiar does not mean exact.In the Tanach it reads: ego eimi ho ohn (I am the being). In John 8:58 ,absent the words ho ohn (=the Being). Are you serious? Here is a trail, one where Jesus is brought before everyone, to be accused of his crimes. No greater crime exists than to claim one is god. Yet with everyone there, NO ONE brings up the fact, that Jesus is running around claiming to be god? This is a HUGE point. All one had to do was bring up one instance, just one. No one ever did. As for the difference between claiming to be god and claiming to be equal with god..the mere fact you do not understand the difference shows everyone how naive you truly are concering this debate.To claim one IS god...means they are one and the same. To claim one is equal to god, means he is NOT god...but equal to his power. Even more remarkable is the fact that Jesus stated over and over he is NOT equal to god! Didnt Peg and I cover this a few times. Christ never calls himself the first and last. You mean the fact Jesus never calls himself god? That Jesus claims he is not all knowing? Not all powerful? That Jesus has a beginning? That he is a man, the messenger sent by god? That his words are not his own? That he prays? That he cries for god to save him? That in heaven, a spirit, he calls the Father god?Yeah, there isnt any evidence that Jesus is not god. I guess I could start believing Jesus is god based upon a few verses out of context and mistranslated.Peg and I have had some indepth debates, yet neither of us ever insulted the other. No matter how frustrating.If you wish to continue, lose the child like behavior. Act like an adult. This is suppose to be a friendly debate, perhaps heated, but it does not have to fall apart bc you cannot stop with the insults.

Damn, I need a job where I can sit down and respond in length, with the time needed. I have a few minutes here and there after work (before kids, shower, kids, dinner, kids, tv, bed. Your posts are too long! LOL!No, Im not a JW, I'm an atheist. Wow. You're really reaching here. Heck, Jesus doesnt even admit they're his wings. Both clearly lay out that Jesus is not god. First, it states Jesus was born. Second, notice it states god and father OF our lord Jesus Christ. Which implies Jesus has a god. Sure I do. Its a major issue. Nowhere in the Bible does it claim Jesus is god. No one denies god dwells in Jesus. But nothing you've stated shows god is a man. Nothing. Jesus states over and over his powers are not his own, his message is not his own, his words are not his own, that he can do nothing except through gods power. Yes, Jesus IS an tiem of gods creation. Which again proves Jesus is not god. Which means he was created.It makes no sense that Jesus stated "Before Abraham, god". Absolutely no sense at all. It makes perfect sense for Jesus to claim before Abraham, he existed. Ok. Ok.But Jesus never calls himself what is stated in the OT.In the Tanach it reads: ego eimi ho ohn (I am the being). In John 8:58 ,absent the words ho ohn (=the Being).Also, the earliest translations have it lower case. Obviously they didnt believe Jesus was implying he was god either. First, its a past event. The problem is that Christian use their Bibles instead of the Jewish translation.There is a huge difference if one goes to Jewish sites and reads what the Tanach states. The tense changes if one reads from the Tanach to the KJV.Term
#
Pronunciation
Root
Reference
Jewish14
nee-TANIsaiah 9:5[6]
KJV has been given
TANACH is givenIsaiah 35:2
has been given
shall be givenLeviticus 19:20
had been given
[was ] givenNumbers 26:62
was given
was givenJoshua 24:33
was given
was givenJeremiah 13:20
was given
was givenJeremiah 51:55
was uttered
is utteredEzekiel 15:4
were given
is castEzekiel 16:34
was given
is givenEzekiel 32:25
was given
is putEcclesiastes 10:6
was set
is setEsther 4:8
was given
was givenEsther 6:8
[was] placed
is set2 Chronicles 34:16
was given
was committedOnly by using dual meanings and mistranslations can you make it refer to Jesus. Now let me ask you this:Moses is called god.
Gabriel also means "Strong God".
Ezekiel means "Strong God".
Elzaphan means "God is Protector"
Eliakim means "God raises".
Elisha means "God is Salvation".
HAZAEL means "God sees"Are these all god?These are just a FEW names of many that one could say refers to god. Jesus is NEVER called the Father at all in the NT. In fact, he is the SON of god. Jesus makes it quite clear that he has a Father, god. This alone should tell you its not about Jesus. Nope. This is what I meant about context. Read chapter 9. Read chapter 10. Its about Hezekiah. Christians have a habit regarding prophecy to focus on one or two verses, never the surrounding verses and the context.Chapter 9, focus on the words, yoke, burden, Midian, rod and staff. You'll notice they mirror Chapter 10. Why? Its one story.Also, as Chapter 10 ends:
20 In that day the remnant of Israel,
the survivors of the house of Jacob,
will no longer rely on him
who struck them down
but will truly rely on the LORD,
the Holy One of Israel.
21 A remnant will return, [b] a remnant of Jacob
will return to the Mighty God.22 Though your people, O Israel, be like the sand by the sea,
only a remnant will return.
Destruction has been decreed,
overwhelming and righteous.23 The Lord, the LORD Almighty, will carry out
the destruction decreed upon the whole land.24 Therefore, this is what the Lord, the LORD Almighty, says:
"O my people who live in Zion,
do not be afraid of the Assyrians,
who beat you with a rod
and lift up a club against you, as Egypt did.25 Very soon my anger against you will end
and my wrath will be directed to their destruction."26 The LORD Almighty will lash them with a whip,
as when he struck down Midian at the rock of Oreb;
and he will raise his staff over the waters,
as he did in Egypt.A time frame is given. Time of the Assyrians. Now take a look at 2nd Chronicles, Chapter 30. It refers back to Isa 9.