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Author Topic:   Is Jesus God?
jaywill
Member (Idle past 496 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 436 of 492 (556945)
04-21-2010 7:54 PM
Reply to: Message 434 by Peg
04-21-2010 6:01 PM


what about when he was on the stake and cried out to God
"My God My God, why have you forsaken me?"

Or when he taught his followers how to pray and he called God "OUR father who is in heavens"

This was before his resurrection. It obviously wasnt only after his resurrection that he refered to God as his own.

You misunderstood my post.

I never said that is was only after His resurrection that He refered to God as His Father.

And your reference from the prayer He taught His disciples is in the synoptic Gospels which I stated did not show this characteristic of elevating His followers from friends to brothers unique to John's Gospel.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 434 by Peg, posted 04-21-2010 6:01 PM Peg has not yet responded

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 496 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 437 of 492 (556946)
04-21-2010 8:01 PM
Reply to: Message 435 by Peg
04-21-2010 6:29 PM


Paul was never a diciple of christ, he was originally an opposer of christ.

Yes he was. He was not one of the 12 original disciples.


He was zelous for the laws and traditions of judaism. He probably believed the christians were deviating from the law that he held so dear. You know, he wasnt the only jew who denied Jesus miracles...there were many who actually witnessed them and continued to deny them. If Paul did witness jesus miracles, he was likely blinded by his own loyalty to the mosaic law and traditions like many others were.

Paul's deception and obsession was not unlike yours. Except for the miracles you also desire to bring the disciples back to the Old Testament dispensation.

That is why so many of your important verses are from the Old Testament. Like those on the nature of death and on the name Jehovah.

We hope that you also will receive mercy to have your eyes opened to see Who Christ really is.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 435 by Peg, posted 04-21-2010 6:29 PM Peg has not yet responded

  
Dawn Bertot
Member (Idle past 55 days)
Posts: 3571
Joined: 11-23-2007


Message 438 of 492 (556995)
04-22-2010 2:38 AM
Reply to: Message 435 by Peg
04-21-2010 6:29 PM


He was Saul of Tarsus. A Pharisee. It was Paul who began the persecution against the christian congregation. Paul was the one who oversaw the murder of Stephen.

Just a quick question. why do you say it was Paul that began the persecution instead of saul?

Mine was simply a point of interest. Why, if Saul was actually one of the people, say for example, that was in the garden that night or at Christ's trial beofre Pilot, why he never mentions in particular, these instances or any others concerning events during his lifetime, Christs lifetime that is

he never seems to have had knowledge of any of those events and never mentions any items in particular, except after the death and ressurection

Paul explained himself why that was the case.

Galatians 13:1 "YOU, of course, heard about my conduct formerly in Ju¡¬da¡Eism, that to the point of excess I kept on persecuting the congregation of God and devastating it, 14 and I was making greater progress in Ju¡¬da¡Eism than many of my own age in my race, as I was far more zealous for the traditions of my fathers."

He was zelous for the laws and traditions of judaism. He probably believed the christians were deviating from the law that he held so dear. You know, he wasnt the only jew who denied Jesus miracles...there were many who actually witnessed them and continued to deny them. If Paul did witness jesus miracles, he was likely blinded by his own loyalty to the mosaic law and traditions like many others were.

if this were the case it seems likely that he would have mentioned some of those specifics, had he actually saw and witnessed Christ or John the baptist

This is certainly not an 'argument' against the authenticity of his story or the book of Acts, it is simply an observation, not a valid argument.

i was going to use this as an example, of an 'observation' when we were discussing the trial of jesus and why he was never accused of claiming to be God.

That is, that it is an observation not a valid argument against the Godhead of Christ

it simply seems odd that he would not have searched out Christ, when he probably was one of the people listening to Gamaliel when he said:

"if it is of God you cannot stop it, if it is of man it will die"

anywho back to the topic

EAM

Edited by EMA, : No reason given.

Edited by EMA, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 435 by Peg, posted 04-21-2010 6:29 PM Peg has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 439 by Peg, posted 04-22-2010 6:16 AM Dawn Bertot has responded

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 3485 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 439 of 492 (557013)
04-22-2010 6:16 AM
Reply to: Message 438 by Dawn Bertot
04-22-2010 2:38 AM


EMA writes:

Just a quick question. why do you say it was Paul that began the persecution instead of saul?

they are the same person. Saul is his hebrew name and Paul is he romanized name.

EMA writes:

Why, if Saul was actually one of the people, say for example, that was in the garden that night or at Christ's trial beofre Pilot, why he never mentions in particular, these instances or any others concerning events during his lifetime, Christs lifetime that is

Who says that he was one of the ones in the garden? I've never read anyting in the bible to say that he was among those who arrested Jesus... i dont believe he was even at Jesus trial.

EMA writes:

if this were the case it seems likely that he would have mentioned some of those specifics, had he actually saw and witnessed Christ or John the baptist

Im sure if he had any contact with Jesus, we would see it written but the bible accounts do not say that Paul/Saul witnessed Jesus or John. What we know of Paul before he became a witness come from a few things mentioned about him by others and by his own admissions.
The fact that there is no mention of Paul having contact with Jesus while he was still alive shows that Paul was not a follower, was not one who sought Jesus out and likely never witnessed Jesus miracles.

He was an opposer of the newly formed congregation as he attests. It wasnt until Jesus appeard to him on the road to Damascus that Paul became a believer and a christian.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 438 by Dawn Bertot, posted 04-22-2010 2:38 AM Dawn Bertot has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 440 by Dawn Bertot, posted 04-22-2010 9:50 AM Peg has responded
 Message 441 by jaywill, posted 04-22-2010 9:52 AM Peg has responded

  
Dawn Bertot
Member (Idle past 55 days)
Posts: 3571
Joined: 11-23-2007


Message 440 of 492 (557036)
04-22-2010 9:50 AM
Reply to: Message 439 by Peg
04-22-2010 6:16 AM


Who says that he was one of the ones in the garden? I've never read anyting in the bible to say that he was among those who arrested Jesus... i dont believe he was even at Jesus trial.

EMA writes:
if this were the case it seems likely that he would have mentioned some of those specifics, had he actually saw and witnessed Christ or John the baptist

Im sure if he had any contact with Jesus, we would see it written but the bible accounts do not say that Paul/Saul witnessed Jesus or John. What we know of Paul before he became a witness come from a few things mentioned about him by others and by his own admissions.
The fact that there is no mention of Paul having contact with Jesus while he was still alive shows that Paul was not a follower, was not one who sought Jesus out and likely never witnessed Jesus miracles.

He was an opposer of the newly formed congregation as he attests. It wasnt until Jesus appeard to him on the road to Damascus that Paul became a believer and a christian.

Your a trip Peg from down under over at Melbourne. I am aware of these facts you are presenting, Im asking WHY that was the case. it doesnt seem reasonable that it should only be that way. With Christs popularity and fame and the stir he created and Paul/Sauls zealouness why he would not have sought him out.

Also if Paul had seen Christ (which it seems likely he did not), he would have seen and responded to Christs message and miracles, due to Pauls nature. or he would have immediatley tried to stamp him out OR convert and immediately defend him or confront him verbally

My simple question is where and what was Paul doing during these three notable years. Hey, perhaps he was away on some sort of mission

Its only an observation, not a great concern

I agree with you on everything else concerning Paul

EAM

Edited by EMA, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 439 by Peg, posted 04-22-2010 6:16 AM Peg has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 447 by Peg, posted 04-22-2010 6:20 PM Dawn Bertot has responded

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 496 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 441 of 492 (557037)
04-22-2010 9:52 AM
Reply to: Message 439 by Peg
04-22-2010 6:16 AM


The fact that there is no mention of Paul having contact with Jesus while he was still alive shows that Paul was not a follower, was not one who sought Jesus out and likely never witnessed Jesus miracles.

He was an opposer of the newly formed congregation as he attests. It wasnt until Jesus appeard to him on the road to Damascus that Paul became a believer and a christian.

I can't see how EMA would disagree with any of this.

What is noteworthy is that Paul said that as a persecutor of the Christian church he was a "blasphemer" (1 Timothy 1:13). Now as a strict Pharisee, Paul would never commit blasphemy against the Hebrew God. So by saying he was a "blasphemer" Paul means that he formerly denied that Jesus was God become a man.

In short, Paul must have blasphemed God by denying that Jesus was God in his persecution of the Christians.

It is evident that Paul regarded Jesus redemptive act as the shedding of God's blood. God could ONLY have human blood if God became a man. So by confessing that the church was redeemed with God's blood Paul acknowledges that Christ is God incarnate:

"Take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among whom the Holy Spirit has placed you as overseers to shepherd the church of God, which He obtained with His own blood." (Acts 20:28)

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 439 by Peg, posted 04-22-2010 6:16 AM Peg has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 442 by Dawn Bertot, posted 04-22-2010 10:03 AM jaywill has responded
 Message 450 by Peg, posted 04-23-2010 7:24 PM jaywill has responded

  
Dawn Bertot
Member (Idle past 55 days)
Posts: 3571
Joined: 11-23-2007


Message 442 of 492 (557040)
04-22-2010 10:03 AM
Reply to: Message 441 by jaywill
04-22-2010 9:52 AM


I can't see how EMA would disagree with any of this.

Your funny Jaywill. Im not disagreeing with a single part of it. I am simply posing the question, where was he during these years

he seems to recall noneof it later in his writings or the fact that he has no specifics concering Christs actions or his interactions with him. remembering seeing him or things of that sort

Its just an observation not an argument

What is noteworthy is that Paul said that as a persecutor of the Christian church he was a "blasphemer" (1 Timothy 1:13). Now as a strict Pharisee, Paul would never commit blasphemy against the Hebrew God. So by saying he was a "blasphemer" Paul means that he formerly denied that Jesus was God become a man.

In short, Paul must have blasphemed God by denying that Jesus was God in his persecution of the Christians.

It is evident that Paul regarded Jesus redemptive act as the shedding of God's blood. God could ONLY have human blood if God became a man. So by confessing that the church was redeemed with God's blood Paul acknowledges that Christ is God incarnate:

Certainly you dont think I disagree with this part?

If indeed Paul was around at his time, my guess is that he was one of those Pharisees that listened to the reports of Christ, as they came in and was one of those that refused to give it any consideration and said things like, "are you also decieved by this man"

On the flip side however, one would wonder why he never sought him out when he heard of the miracles and the words, "Never have we heard such a man speak"

As one writer puts it

At the Feast of Tabernacles, many among the multitudes believed in Jesus (John 7:31). They could not imagine that the long-awaited Christ would perform more signs than He, and they eagerly listened to His words. Rather than similarly responding to the ministry of the Son of God, the Chief Priests and Pharisees sent officers to apprehend Him (John 7:32). Their desire was to have Christ stand before them so that they might find cause to accuse Him. Instead of returning with Christ as their prisoner, the officers came back empty-handed. The manner of Christ’s speaking had so impressed them that they could not apprehend Him in good conscience. When questioned by the Chief Priests and Pharisees, the officers justified their failure to bring Christ by saying, “Never did a man speak the way this man speaks.”

Christ spoke with absolute authority. The great men of the world exercise leadership over others (Mark 10:42), and their words carry authority in proportion to the greatness of their positions. With men, such authority is relative, for even the greatest of men possess very limited power; but with Christ, authority is absolute, for He is the Son of God, and has authority over all things in heaven and earth (Matt 28:18).

The religious rulers of Christ’s day often quoted other sources in their teachings, seeking to bring the weight of another’s authority to bear. Not so with Christ: He could say, “You have heard that it was said…but I say to you” (Matt 5:21-22). His manner of speech was so unprecedented that “the people were astonished at His teaching, for He taught them as one having authority and not as the scribes” (Matt 7:28-29). Christ even set His own words as the standard by which men will stand or fall in the final judgment: “He who rejects me and does not receive my words has that which judges him-the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day” (John 12:48).

Joseph mantlato

Saul/Paul may have been just that arrogant and stubborn though

Again and finally on this point, its seems odd that he, Paul, as was his custom does not reference a single instance of Christs person ministry or any of the events concerning those specifics

perhaps he was indeed completely removed from those events

EAM

Edited by EMA, : No reason given.

Edited by EMA, : No reason given.

Edited by EMA, : No reason given.

Edited by EMA, : No reason given.

Edited by EMA, : No reason given.

Edited by EMA, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 441 by jaywill, posted 04-22-2010 9:52 AM jaywill has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 443 by jaywill, posted 04-22-2010 11:17 AM Dawn Bertot has responded
 Message 444 by jaywill, posted 04-22-2010 11:25 AM Dawn Bertot has not yet responded

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 496 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 443 of 492 (557050)
04-22-2010 11:17 AM
Reply to: Message 442 by Dawn Bertot
04-22-2010 10:03 AM


Your funny Jaywill. Im not disagreeing with a single part of it. I am simply posing the question, where was he during these years

To clarify, I was finding it unlikely that you would disagree (according to Peg's inquiry), not mine.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 442 by Dawn Bertot, posted 04-22-2010 10:03 AM Dawn Bertot has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 445 by Dawn Bertot, posted 04-22-2010 12:44 PM jaywill has responded

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 496 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 444 of 492 (557051)
04-22-2010 11:25 AM
Reply to: Message 442 by Dawn Bertot
04-22-2010 10:03 AM


Certainly you dont think I disagree with this part?

No, I expect you to believe in the Deity of Jesus. I am confusing responses possibly in how I am making comments.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 442 by Dawn Bertot, posted 04-22-2010 10:03 AM Dawn Bertot has not yet responded

  
Dawn Bertot
Member (Idle past 55 days)
Posts: 3571
Joined: 11-23-2007


Message 445 of 492 (557060)
04-22-2010 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 443 by jaywill
04-22-2010 11:17 AM


To clarify, I was finding it unlikely that you would disagree (according to Peg's inquiry), not mine.

I should have seen that , sorry

What is your take on the Paul question

EAM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 443 by jaywill, posted 04-22-2010 11:17 AM jaywill has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 446 by jaywill, posted 04-22-2010 4:53 PM Dawn Bertot has responded

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 496 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 446 of 492 (557102)
04-22-2010 4:53 PM
Reply to: Message 445 by Dawn Bertot
04-22-2010 12:44 PM


Succintly, what is the Paul question ?

I've lost track of it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 445 by Dawn Bertot, posted 04-22-2010 12:44 PM Dawn Bertot has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 449 by Dawn Bertot, posted 04-23-2010 2:33 PM jaywill has responded

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 3485 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 447 of 492 (557116)
04-22-2010 6:20 PM
Reply to: Message 440 by Dawn Bertot
04-22-2010 9:50 AM


EMA writes:

Your a trip Peg from down under over at Melbourne. I am aware of these facts you are presenting, Im asking WHY that was the case. it doesnt seem reasonable that it should only be that way. With Christs popularity and fame and the stir he created and Paul/Sauls zealouness why he would not have sought him out.

why didnt the priests seek out Jesus? Why only Nicodemus?

The answer is that the Jews were expecting a liberator. They had the idea that the Messiah was going to be someone powerful and prestigous to topple the Roman yolk.

Jesus was nothing more then a poor carpenter from a hick town where nothign exciting ever happened. If you look at Jesus stern rebuke to the religious authorities you'll see that there was a great divide between the people. There were the very rich and the very poor. The very rich were the leaders and they viewed the poor in a very bad light. They even had a derogatory term that they called all poor people by...Amharets. It means 'earth people' or people of the dirt. And they treated them like dirt.

To the rich classes, Jesus was one of those people of the dirt. Do you really think that they were going to come down off their lofty position and raise Jesus to the status of a rich person?

EMA writes:

Also if Paul had seen Christ (which it seems likely he did not), he would have seen and responded to Christs message and miracles, due to Pauls nature. or he would have immediatley tried to stamp him out OR convert and immediately defend him or confront him verbally

i believe that if Paul had of seen Jesus miracles, he may have responded. He certainly responded when Jesus appeared to him on the road to damascus, but im sure most people would have under those circumstances if you know what i mean.

But Paul was of the rich class and by his own admission he was a zealout and a devout jew which is why he persecuted the christians. It also explains why he may not have been associating with Jesus....Jesus was a poor person and associated with other poor people, not many of the rich wanted to be seen in the company of the poorer classes. Thats probably why Jesus said "it will be easier for a camel to pass thru the eye of a needle then for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God"

EMA writes:

My simple question is where and what was Paul doing during these three notable years. Hey, perhaps he was away on some sort of mission

Well he was a roman citizen, so he could have been in Rome during Jesus ministry. But also his age would be a factor too...he was only a 'young man' when Stephen was stoned so he may have only been a teenager when jesus was around which would have meant the he wouldnt have been travelling around on his own.

He was also studying Jewish law so he could have been locking himself away in a room burying his head in books and learning. Remember that Jesus ministry only lasted 3 years, so it wasnt a long time for the word to spread too far about Jesus.

And there is another thing to consider....there were many 'so called' christs coming and going. If Paul heard anythign about Jesus he could simply have put it down to another imposter pretending to be the messiah.

Edited by Peg, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 440 by Dawn Bertot, posted 04-22-2010 9:50 AM Dawn Bertot has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 448 by Dawn Bertot, posted 04-23-2010 8:43 AM Peg has responded

  
Dawn Bertot
Member (Idle past 55 days)
Posts: 3571
Joined: 11-23-2007


Message 448 of 492 (557160)
04-23-2010 8:43 AM
Reply to: Message 447 by Peg
04-22-2010 6:20 PM


i believe that if Paul had of seen Jesus miracles, he may have responded. He certainly responded when Jesus appeared to him on the road to damascus, but im sure most people would have under those circumstances if you know what i mean.

its really hard to say that he would have, but i have a tendancy to believe he would have as well, due to his nature. At minimum he would I believe, have question jesus outright and not at night like Nicodemus

Well he was a roman citizen, so he could have been in Rome during Jesus ministry. But also his age would be a factor too...he was only a 'young man' when Stephen was stoned so he may have only been a teenager when jesus was around which would have meant the he wouldnt have been travelling around on his own.

Doesnt tradition say he he gave his life for his Lord in 65 AD, at about age 62. This would have made him close to 30 at the time of his conversion and Stephens death.

It is interesting to me that he has nothing to say (nor the book of Acts) about his doing and going about, during Christs ministry.

It is usually Pauls custom to mention the past in connection with and incidentally with some regretable actions on his part. As the great man of conscience he was, he was always refering to the past in some respects.

There are a couple of other possiblites. We certainly do not have all of Pauls letters to individuals and the Churches, which could very well mention his actions and knowledge of such events during Christs ministries.

it could have been the case that Paul did not feel it necessary to mention items that were still very fresh in everyones memories

He was also studying Jewish law so he could have been locking himself away in a room burying his head in books and learning. Remember that Jesus ministry only lasted 3 years, so it wasnt a long time for the word to spread too far about Jesus.

And there is another thing to consider....there were many 'so called' christs coming and going. If Paul heard anythign about Jesus he could simply have put it down to another imposter pretending to be the messiah.

these two I dismiss as improbable, due to the nature and popularity of Christ at that time.

On the one hand we want to defend Josephus' reference to Christ while others are dismissing it. Then when in another conversation people (we) often want to to down play the notiriaty and popularity of Christ and reduce it to a small area and a small group of people.

It seems we cant eat our cake and have it as well. his actions were either well known or they were not.

In acts paul says to Aggripa 'these things were not done in a dark corner but were visible for all to see"

Acts 5 says,

12The apostles performed many miraculous signs and wonders among the people. And all the believers used to meet together in Solomon's Colonnade. 13No one else dared join them, even though they were highly regarded by the people. 14Nevertheless, more and more men and women believed in the Lord and were added to their number. 15As a result, people brought the sick into the streets and laid them on beds and mats so that at least Peter's shadow might fall on some of them as he passed by. 16Crowds gathered also from the towns around Jerusalem, bringing their sick and those tormented by evil[a] spirits, and all of them were healed.
The Apostles Persecuted
17Then the high priest and all his associates, who were members of the party of the Sadducees, were filled with jealousy. 18They arrested the apostles and put them in the public jail. 19But during the night an angel of the Lord opened the doors of the jail and brought them out. 20"Go, stand in the temple courts," he said, "and tell the people the full message of this new life."
21At daybreak they entered the temple courts, as they had been told, and began to teach the people.

When the high priest and his associates arrived, they called together the Sanhedrin—the full assembly of the elders of Israel—and sent to the jail for the apostles. 22But on arriving at the jail, the officers did not find them there. So they went back and reported, 23"We found the jail securely locked, with the guards standing at the doors; but when we opened them, we found no one inside." 24On hearing this report, the captain of the temple guard and the chief priests were puzzled, wondering what would come of this.

25Then someone came and said, "Look! The men you put in jail are standing in the temple courts teaching the people." 26At that, the captain went with his officers and brought the apostles. They did not use force, because they feared that the people would stone them.

27Having brought the apostles, they made them appear before the Sanhedrin to be questioned by the high priest. 28"We gave you strict orders not to teach in this name," he said. "Yet you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and are determined to make us guilty of this man's blood."

29Peter and the other apostles replied: "We must obey God rather than men! 30The God of our fathers raised Jesus from the dead—whom you had killed by hanging him on a tree. 31God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might give repentance and forgiveness of sins to Israel. 32We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."

33When they heard this, they were furious and wanted to put them to death. 34But a Pharisee named Gamaliel, a teacher of the law, who was honored by all the people, stood up in the Sanhedrin and ordered that the men be put outside for a little while. 35Then he addressed them: "Men of Israel, consider carefully what you intend to do to these men. 36Some time ago Theudas appeared, claiming to be somebody, and about four hundred men rallied to him. He was killed, all his followers were dispersed, and it all came to nothing. 37After him, Judas the Galilean appeared in the days of the census and led a band of people in revolt. He too was killed, and all his followers were scattered. 38Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. 39But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God."

40His speech persuaded them. They called the apostles in and had them flogged. Then they ordered them not to speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go.

41The apostles left the Sanhedrin, rejoicing because they had been counted worthy of suffering disgrace for the Name. 42Day after day, in the temple courts and from house to house, they never stopped teaching and proclaiming the good news that Jesus is the Christ.

if this is what happened during the Apostles ministries then we could only wonder the stir that Christ must have caused.

Either everything is fabricated about Paul, he had his head buried in the sand or we simply dont have all of his writings concerning his actions, which is very likely

EAM

Edited by EMA, : No reason given.

Edited by EMA, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 447 by Peg, posted 04-22-2010 6:20 PM Peg has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 451 by Peg, posted 04-23-2010 8:10 PM Dawn Bertot has responded

  
Dawn Bertot
Member (Idle past 55 days)
Posts: 3571
Joined: 11-23-2007


Message 449 of 492 (557193)
04-23-2010 2:33 PM
Reply to: Message 446 by jaywill
04-22-2010 4:53 PM


Succintly, what is the Paul question ?
I've lost track of it.

Succintly. Thats funny.

You should be able to see what we are talking about in 447 and 448. Maybe together we can bring this question back to the original topic

P.S did you ever get back into computer programming

EAM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 446 by jaywill, posted 04-22-2010 4:53 PM jaywill has responded

Replies to this message:
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Peg
Member (Idle past 3485 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 450 of 492 (557207)
04-23-2010 7:24 PM
Reply to: Message 441 by jaywill
04-22-2010 9:52 AM


Jaywill, why would God, who always identified himself as Jehovah in the OT, suddenly identify himself as Jesus?

And in the following verse, why does Jesus not call himself 'God'? It seems strange considering he has returned to his original position by this stage, yet he calls himself by an inferior earthly name.

Acts 9:3 "Now as he was traveling he approached Damascus, when suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him, 4 and he fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him: “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?” 5 He said: “Who are you, Lord?” He said: “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting."

If you look at the hebrew scriptures, God always refers to himself by his name Jehovah as do his prophets. I find it completely strange and highly unlikely that his name would now change to Jesus.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 441 by jaywill, posted 04-22-2010 9:52 AM jaywill has responded

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 Message 453 by jaywill, posted 04-24-2010 1:08 AM Peg has responded

  
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