WooHoo! More idiots running the gub'ment.

Science is taught in the classroom (or at least it should be ). It has nothing to do with ideology. Creationism is not substantiated by emperical evidence nor peer-reviewed. If creationism had any ounce of emperical evidence then it would be presented in the classroom. The classroom is NOT the forum for vetting unsubstantiated pseudoscientific ideas otherwise we should be teaching our kids astrology and how to use healing crystals. And these elected representatives have chosen to keep real science like biological and cosmic evolution in the schools. Case in point, Dover. You can't have it both ways. Pot calling the kettle, much Buzz? I see more pity parties and martyr attitudes from fundamentalists than from any other group out there.

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One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous. - Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

Buzz, just to enlighten you. Atheism just means a non-belief in supernatural beings/entities aka god(s). As a result, atheism by its very definition has no moral/ethical dogma/ideaology/meaning by itself. I assume this is what Theodoric and Rhavin are implying.This does not mean that atheists are ammoral or immoral (I hope you know what the difference between the two are) people. Most atheists adopt a form of humanism on which to base there own personal ethics framework on.For example, the reason murder is considered wrong by humanists is because ultimately it is destructive to the human species. The religious fundamentalist's reason why murder is wrong is merely because some supernatural entity says so. Thats it. Hmm, which one is a better reason of why murder should be considered wrong. I go with the first one.Humanism is a moral framework which, like I said above, is adopted defacto by many atheists. Humanism has many forms and definitions but the underlying theme is a heavy emphasis on human intellect, logic and rational rather than unsubstantiated and often irrational religious belief and faith on which to base human values and norms.One is not required to be an atheist to be a humanist. There are many agnostics and even theists who were and are humanists i.e. Albert Schweitzer, Charles Darwin, Ghandi, Albert Einstein, Spinoza, Pope John XXIII (the current pope is a racist idiot IMHO), etc. However, I have yet to find a fundamental Christian who advocates humanism. I think a Fundamental Christian Humanist is an oxymoron.Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

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One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous. - Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

The problem is, that all these "spiritual experiences" are:a. completely subjective
b. not supported by emperical evidence.
c. easily induced by a plethera of psychosomatic and external triggers
d. the evolution of which can be traced back through human history and biological evolution
e. are present in just about all cultures on Earth, showing that these "experiences" are part and parcel to the human condition
f. rudimentary evidence of spirituality can be found in other species i.e. the wild chimpanzee community has links to animism Chimpanzee SpiritualitySubjective 'evidence' is not verifiable evidence and thus useless to anyone outside that person experiencing it. Even the most moral and ethical person has there own biases and can easily and unintentionally skew personal experiences based on there individual psychological makeup and worldview. This is why we have peer review and other methods of validation in the scientific community to help validate emperical evidence that is presented. Even then we often incorrectly misinterpret this data because of human bias. The point is that you can't use this subjective 'evidence' to prove anything without validating it and thus the existence of such 'evidence' is a moot point. What would be the standard to allow this 'evidence' to be presented? Why not evidence of UFO encounters, big foot, ghosts, or any other paranormal experiences?

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One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous. - Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

You mean these non-violent parts of the NT? Also there is more violence in the OT (none of which is disputed by fundamental Christians) then there is in the whole Quran (most of which is poetic soliloquy and monlogues rather than the historical narrative evident in much of the OT).Also, here are a few hate filled quotes from your "non-violent" Christian Protestant idols. John Calvin was a self-accused, cold-blooded murder. He had fellow protestant reformer, Michael Servetus, arrested and then personally requested his execution by beheading because he disagreed with his theology: Martin Luther was a murderer, an anti-semitic racist and a disgusting filthy person who NO ONE should admire.These are not just idle, empty threats. He was very influential in the politics of Germany after it rejected Catholism and embraced Protestantism and his very words were used 400 years later as a framework for Hitler’s persecution and extermination of the Jewish race in Nazi Europe.This is just the tip of the iceberg of Protestant leaders, reformation and great awakening ministers who advocate hatred, slavery and other inhumane behavior and speach. Should I list all the ministers of the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries who supported slavery, racism and segregation? Need I go on?You say that atheism is a direct reflection of "atheistic" leaders such as Mao Zedung, Stalin, and others. Yet, you are a hyporcite when you blatantly ignore and passively condone the evident racism, hate-speach and suppression of human rights promoted by the very people you applaud as being Christian role models.Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

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One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous. - Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

Yes, but no one is protesting male pipe fittings connecting to other male fittings. No one is tying cars to fence posts after beating the crap out of them and leaving them to die. No one is murdering male pipe fittings and cars for wanting to be together.We are talking about HUMAN BEINGS here Buzz not asanine unrelated metaphors.Just because you don't think they belong together or think it is not natural (whatever that means- I think you are not natural :rolleyes does not mean they are not entitled to basic human rights. Does it really matter what two human beings do in the privacy of there home as concenting adults? Should we go into your home and start video taping you and your wife so that you don't commit sodomy acts? REALLY?!?And if gay people want to get married, hitched, betrothed, tie the knot, yoked, whatever? Who cares? Does it affect anyone else's freedoms? NO! So what difference is it of yours? Is it impeding any of your freedoms? Absolutely not! Get over it and stop impeding the rights of others.Or do you not believe that Thomas Jefferson was correct in his advocating certain inalienable (unable to take away) human rights such as Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness? Do you not think the right of two people whether they be straight or gay to get married is part of the "pursuit of Happiness"?Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

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One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous. - Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

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One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous. - Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

Thanks for sharing Dwise. This is exactly what happened to my sister when she divorced her first husband about 10 years ago.She lost most if not nearly all her Christian-friends and even estranged some family members.I will not go into the details due to privacy reasons, but let me just say that she was rather miserable in this one-sided, abusive relationship to an ordained Christian minister.She is now married to a loving husband, best friend and great father to their 3 year old boy.I have not seen my sister this happy for quite some time. Thankfully she was able to divorce her first jerk of a husband. And thankfully she has friends now (almost all of which are not Christians) who genuinely care about her well being.Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

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One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous. - Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

la vengeance se mange trs-bien froide

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One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous. - Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World