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Author Topic:   The accelerating expanding universe
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 79 of 149 (611201)
04-06-2011 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by cavediver
04-06-2011 3:50 PM


Re: A general question for anyone
Consequently, we can't say that we could be at any time in the Universe, because the Universe wasn't suitable for our existence at those prior times. It took nearly 10 billion years to have the heavy elements in adequate abundance for us to coming into being. We are thus forced into considering abiogenesis. In a Universe that perpetually looks like the Universe today, life could have always existed!
Wouldn't we have to know when the Universe were going to 'end', so to speak, before deciding whether or not our position in time is unique? Can we know if we're at the beginning, middle, or end without knowing the length of the line?
Or... am I entirely misunderstanding the concepts in question?
Jon

Check out No webpage found at provided URL: Apollo's Temple!
Ignorance is temporary; you should be able to overcome it. - nwr

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by cavediver, posted 04-06-2011 3:50 PM cavediver has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by cavediver, posted 04-06-2011 4:47 PM Jon has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 87 of 149 (611223)
04-06-2011 5:15 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by cavediver
04-06-2011 4:47 PM


Re: A general question for anyone
So no matter how long the temporal sweet-spot, it is infinitesimal next to the entire Universe.
Okay, I think I understand that part; the time-window for life is relatively short and comparatively near the start time of the Universe, making it somewhat 'unique' or 'special'... yes?
Yet with the continuing and ever increasing expansion, the encroaching heat-death or cold-death will eventually be reached, and the Universe will remain in that state ad infinitum.
Suppose there were a way to enclose a biological system and allow it to continue to function perpetually without the input of external energy potential, would this system still be able to exist after the heat-death/cold-death, or does the fact that it was built of particles from the expanding Universe mean that it too will expand and undergo the heat-death/cold-death extinction? I mean, is the expansion happening at even the most minute level, such that even creating a biological system will be impossible after the heat-death/cold-death simply because the atomic structures required for such systems would no longer exist?
Jon

Check out No webpage found at provided URL: Apollo's Temple!
Ignorance is temporary; you should be able to overcome it. - nwr

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by cavediver, posted 04-06-2011 4:47 PM cavediver has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by subbie, posted 04-06-2011 5:25 PM Jon has replied
 Message 91 by cavediver, posted 04-06-2011 5:46 PM Jon has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 90 of 149 (611231)
04-06-2011 5:43 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by subbie
04-06-2011 5:25 PM


Re: A general question for anyone
Any such system would fall prey to the creotard's favorite Law of Thermodynamics. A closed system inevitably succumbs to increasing entropy.
Well, yes, and that was the point behind the system being able to continue existing without needing external energy. But let's not get tied up in my example.
The point I was trying to get to was whether the heat-death/cold-death represents some change that prevents life from existing because there is no ability to transfer energy to that living system, or whether the physical properties of the post-death atoms themselves would make it impossible to construct, for example, a human bodynot necessarily because we couldn't energize it, but simply because the atoms needed to create it would no longer exist in the necessary form.
Jon

Check out No webpage found at provided URL: Apollo's Temple!
Ignorance is temporary; you should be able to overcome it. - nwr

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by subbie, posted 04-06-2011 5:25 PM subbie has seen this message but not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 92 of 149 (611234)
04-06-2011 5:50 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by Alfred Maddenstein
04-06-2011 5:28 PM


Re: A general question for anyone
You have to come up with something better than simply calling anything I say confused and meaningless.
Actually, cavediver most recently defended your statement which others had called meaningless; sure, he pointed out why he thought you were wrong, but he also indicated that your statement was meaningful and comprehensible.
And please start using a double-return between your paragraphs; they're so much easier to read when separated.
Jon

Check out No webpage found at provided URL: Apollo's Temple!
Ignorance is temporary; you should be able to overcome it. - nwr

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 04-06-2011 5:28 PM Alfred Maddenstein has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 94 of 149 (611237)
04-06-2011 5:56 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by cavediver
04-06-2011 5:46 PM


Re: A general question for anyone
And then the ever accelerating expansion will scatter those final particles each into their own causally isolated volumes of space...
So is my body expanding presently? Are my atoms and the particles within them slowly moving farther apart such that my immortality is not even theoretically possible as my body is slowly ripped apart by the expansion forces of the Universe?
Otherwise, the heat/cold-death has several 1010... billion years to wait for your energy to run out, and then it will get you and your bubble...
Wait! So it's possible in a bubble? I looked up heat death, and it seems to only affect energy. But what about the expansion of matter?
Jon

Check out No webpage found at provided URL: Apollo's Temple!
Ignorance is temporary; you should be able to overcome it. - nwr

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by cavediver, posted 04-06-2011 5:46 PM cavediver has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by cavediver, posted 04-06-2011 6:06 PM Jon has not replied

  
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