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Member (Idle past 4537 days) Posts: 428 From: Portland, OR USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Evidence for the Biblical Record | |||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1432 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi Theodoric, just a comment:
And what the hell is this idea that coral will not grow on gold? Heavy metals work as anti-foulants, due to heavy metal poisoning of the organisms that try to eat into the surface. This is why warships used to be plated in copper. Google {copper antifoulant} andBiofouling - Wikipedia The effect of heavy metals on organisms that just bond to a surface and then use that as an anchor to filter passing sea water - like barnacles and corals - is not as great, as they are only affected by secondary source of the metal - eating organisms that eat at the surfaces or that absorb the metal that is gradually dispersed into the water. If gold had worked better than copper it would have been used and it would have been noted. Certainly a thousand years of preservation with one thin coating would be cost effective compared to frequent re-coatings with copper, and all the other materials that have been tried by all the navies in the world. The cost difference between operating a vessel with a clean bottom and one with a foul bottom is noticeable after only one year of growth, and this alone would make god a cost saving measure if it worked as well as it would have to for these wheels to be coral (and other growth) free. Gold does not work any better than copper as an anti-foulant,Copper coatings need to be renewed every 2 to 3 years. In other words, it's bunk. Wyatt is known for faking evidence, so if all you have is a photo from Wyatt, you don't really have anything credible at all. Enjoy. we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1432 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Buzz, we've discussed this before.
If (I say if) there was a gold gilted one, perhaps it would have been from Pharoah's royal chariot. Before we even get to that hypothetical situation you need to demonstrate that gold has a remarkable anti-foulant property that is unknown in this day and age. We know that copper, tin and nickel are not sufficient to provide such a level of antifoulant protection for objects in marine environments, and there is absolutely no indication that gold is any different. First a little history on the effects Teredo Worms and the like:
quote: These organisms cause substantial damage in only a few years to any wood structure, and would have completely consumed any wood structure not buried in mud or silt in much less than ~2000 years. This is why only buried wooden structures of shipwrecks are found. When we look at the history of copper hull plating to reduce the effects of marine growth and damage to vessels in normal salt water environments, we see that there were several problems involved:
quote: Even with the copper plates, the need to clean and scrape the bottoms was not eliminated, just that it took a little longer for the growth to reach the same level as occurs on hulls without plating. The same is true for anti-fouling paints used today and their development. Please do not confuse galvanic corrosion susceptibility with anti-fouling effects - all the anodic index indicates is the relative likelihood that the metal in question will dissolve when in connection with other metal objects. Gold, silver, nickle, brasses, bronzes and tin are at the low end of the anodic index, iron and steels are in the middle, while aluminum, magnesium and zinc are at the top end (and hence are used for anodes to protect steel from galvanic corrosion and why you shouldn't leave a copper penny in the bilge of an aluminum vessel). What galvanic corrosion ensures is that if there were any other metals involved that they would have dissolved when in contact with gold in any form in seawater. This is why the Royal Navy had problems with fastening the copper plates to the hulls - it resulted in the galvanic corrosion of the hull bolts and subsequent structural failure. Gold is the most active anode, ensuring that every other metal in contact with it would corrode over time. This rules out metal wheels covered in gold plate. When we look at the development of anti fouling paints we see that heavy metals have been used:
quote: Gold, gold particles and gold compounds are not, and have not been, used. When it comes to toxicity, we know that contact with gold jewelery is not particularly toxic, even when kept in close contact with human skin for many years on end (wedding rings), even though the gold there is usually in a compound with other metals, but that when combined with nickel (some "white gold" compounds) that toxic effects due to the nickel content can be noticed. This rules out wooden wheels covered in gold plate preventing the consumption of wood by marine organisms (see Teredo Worms above). Marine growth like coral, barnacles and the like, can attach to any smooth surface as they excrete compounds that glue the shells etc to the surface while they feed on the passing sea water. Without a highly toxic surface, growth occurs, even on copper and nickel surfaces, which are much more toxic than gold. This rules out the complete absence of marine growth on the surfaces of wheels.
If (I say if) there was a gold gilted one, perhaps it would have been from Pharoah's royal chariot. When we look at the process of gilding, there is even less likelihood of the surface surviving intact in their original geometry: Gilding - Wikipedia
quote: If all you are left with, is a thin layer of gilt paint or gold leaf, there is no structure to maintain shape, even against mild daily tidal currents. Wood or steel substrates would have corroded or been consumed with nothing to protect them from the elements and the organisms. In a nutshell, bright gleaming gold covered intact appearing wheels lying on the sea bottom without any marine growth are highly extremely UNlikely to survive 100 years, to say nothing of over 2000 years, without a miracle to subvert natural processes. On the other hand, bright gleaming gold covered intact appearing wheels lying on the sea bottom without any marine growth are highly extremely likely to be part of a scam, a hoax, a fraud, hoping to delude gullible people. Enjoy. we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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