Please do not reply to this message in this thread because it is off-topic, a reply to another message that was off-topic. If someone proposes a thread to discuss the existence of God or why the existence of the universe is evidence of God then I will promote it as quickly as I can. --Admin
Where is the indisputable verifiable evidence it happened any other way?
If you make the assertion, it is customary to back it up with evidence and not answer a question with a question. You gave a tautological response, so I am asking you to back that up. I already know that you cannot, but I am trying to get you to think about your own tautology.
Since God claims to be everything that is when He says "I AM"
He would have the ability and the material to do the job.
You are basing that off of a belief from a book. Just because the book alleges he said it, it not only doesn't mean that God necessarily did it, but it also doesn't even mean that he said it.
You therefore have to find independent evidence to corroborate it, not saying, "God did it because he said he did it." That's a tautology.
Whatever created the heavens and the earth had to have the ability and the material.
Had to have? In accordance with what whimsical and arbitrary rule?
Since our universe is the only isolated system in existence as I have been told several times there is nothing outside of it. Therefore matter and energy cannot be created in it.
1. We don't know if this is the only isolated system. It is a gigantic universe, of which know almost nothing about in the grand scheme of things.
2. Even supposing some form of supernatural being created the universe, who is to say that it was the Judeo-Christian God? The Qu'ran makes similar declarations, the Vedas make similar declarations, Norse religions make similar declarations. It could also be a supernatural being we know nothing about. There are incalculable theories would could pull out of thin air because they can neither be proven nor disproven.
Therefore whatever created the heaven and the earth would be God. Making the statement in Genesis 1:1 a fact.
Do you understand what "fact" means? You are creating an arbitrary rule that anything that does not conform to your beliefs, or anything we don't know with 100% empirical certainty, automatically defaults to your position. That's not how reality works.
It doesn't make any difference what or who created the universe whether it was the God I believe in or the pea sized God that I have been told had the entire universe in it. Either one had to be the existence of everything that exist today.
No, not necessarily. This universe had a beginning, in accordance with all known observation. It is reasonable to say that something must have existed prior to the creation of the universe, because nothing in the known universe comes about without some cause precipitating the event.
We also know that this universe is bound by certain physical laws. However, the possibility exists that the beginning of this universe was created out of the death of another universe, of which could have had an entirely different set of physical laws.
Sure, it points to an infinite series of regressions that merely delay the ultimate First Cause, but we already do that because no one knows for sure. That, in and of itself, is my point though. You don't know, I don't know, no one knows with certainty. We may never know the full scope of the truth. You are welcome to theorize whatever you'd like, but you need to understand that people will challenge you on that belief and probe for inconsistencies.
Edited by Admin, : Add moderator request.
"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." -- Charlton Heston
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