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Author Topic:   Camel's Noses, Trojan Horses, and Cultural Aggression
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 61 of 94 (551516)
03-23-2010 12:13 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by DrJones*
03-22-2010 11:58 PM


Re: Buzsaw Position: Jehovah vs Allah
Dr Jones writes:

There you go with your blasphemy again.

I do not fear the Muslim entities, Doc, nor do I regard facts about Islam as blasphemy.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by DrJones*, posted 03-22-2010 11:58 PM DrJones* has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by DrJones*, posted 03-23-2010 12:46 AM Buzsaw has acknowledged this reply

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4140
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 62 of 94 (551519)
03-23-2010 12:16 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by Buzsaw
03-22-2010 11:54 PM


Re: Buzsaw Position: Jehovah vs Allah
Allah is the only known or acknowledged proper name of the Muslim god where as the generic term, "god" is the adjective defining what/who Allah is.

My Allah, man. Did you not comprehend Dr. A's message 37 and 40 above? I can confirm his information.

"Allah" is a noun, not a "proper name." In Arabic it is the only noun for God and is used throughout the Arab world by all the Abrahamic religions including Christians to refer to the Allah of Abraham which is the only Allah Christians, Jews and Moslems believe in.

Good Allah man. Get ye some education and stop looking like such a fool!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Buzsaw, posted 03-22-2010 11:54 PM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Buzsaw, posted 03-23-2010 12:26 AM AZPaul3 has not yet responded

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 63 of 94 (551520)
03-23-2010 12:18 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by Granny Magda
03-23-2010 12:01 AM


Re: Buzsaw Position: Jehovah vs Allah
Granny Magda writes:

Yes, God forbid that one Abrahamic faith should hijack the teachings of an earlier Abrahamic faith, that would dreadful...

Yes, most certainly, especially when the Jonny come lately hijacked data contradicts the older scriptures which declare Jesus to be the son of God.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Granny Magda, posted 03-23-2010 12:01 AM Granny Magda has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by Granny Magda, posted 03-23-2010 12:41 AM Buzsaw has responded

  
Granny Magda
Member (Idle past 63 days)
Posts: 2380
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007


Message 64 of 94 (551521)
03-23-2010 12:23 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by Buzsaw
03-23-2010 12:05 AM


Re: WARNING, FRIENDS! :
Buz, I've seen your idea of "evidence" and suffice to say, I didn't find it compelling. Even if I did though, I still could not worship such a God. I wouldn't want to worship an entity that would condemn a child to hellfire just for making a smart-ass comment on a Youtube video. Still, maybe the kid got off easy. At least he didn't get ripped apart by bears first. I hear that can happen.

The fear of Jehovah is the beginning of knowledge;........

If you truly believe in such a cruel God, you are right to fear him. To love him though? That's pretty sick. All a bit "Big Brother" for me.

Mutate and Survive


This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by Buzsaw, posted 03-23-2010 12:05 AM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by Buzsaw, posted 03-23-2010 12:34 AM Granny Magda has not yet responded
 Message 68 by Buzsaw, posted 03-23-2010 12:40 AM Granny Magda has not yet responded

    
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 65 of 94 (551522)
03-23-2010 12:26 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by AZPaul3
03-23-2010 12:16 AM


Re: Buzsaw Position: Jehovah vs Allah
AZPaul writes:

"Allah" is a noun, not a "proper name."

I see. So the Muslim god has no proper name. Interesting, indeed.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by AZPaul3, posted 03-23-2010 12:16 AM AZPaul3 has not yet responded

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 66 of 94 (551524)
03-23-2010 12:34 AM
Reply to: Message 64 by Granny Magda
03-23-2010 12:23 AM


Re: WARNING, FRIENDS! :
Granny Magda writes:

If you truly believe in such a cruel God, you are right to fear him. To love him though? That's pretty sick. All a bit "Big Brother" for me.

It's like my relationship with my Daddy as a son, Granny; a fear/love thing. I loved him but feared disobeying him. He loved me as well and had no joy in punishing me for my own good when I did not obey.

Praise Jehovah, from whom all blessing flow to those who fear him!


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Granny Magda, posted 03-23-2010 12:23 AM Granny Magda has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16097
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 67 of 94 (551525)
03-23-2010 12:35 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by Buzsaw
03-22-2010 11:54 PM


Re: Buzsaw Position: Jehovah vs Allah
Why then, in order to become a Muslim one must declare that Allah is god and Muhammed is his prophet?

No, you still don't get it.

The Muslim declaration of faith is: "There is no god except God, and Muhammad is his prophet" --- "la ilaha illallah, Muhammadur rasulullah".

I could become a Muslim right now by by saying (and believing) the sentence: "There is no god except God, and Muhammad is his prophet". Believing that God's personal name is Allah would be a mistake, a blunder, a faux pas, the amusing mistake of a beginner.

Of course we often use the word "Allah", to mean "the god of the Muslims", but that is not what it actually means in Arabic. It just means God-with-a-capital-G. If you're Jewish or Muslim or Christian or Sikh or Baha'i or Deist, then if you're speaking Arabic, you have to say that you believe in "Allah". That is the one and only word the Arabic language has for God qua God. That is what Arabic-speaking Christians call God. That's what Arabic-speaking Jews call God. That's the Arabic for God.

Look at it this way. If you learned Arabic, and went to Arabia, and told a Christian Arab in Arabic that you didn't believe in Allah, then he would understand you as meaning that you were an atheist.

Do you get it now?

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Buzsaw, posted 03-22-2010 11:54 PM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by Buzsaw, posted 03-23-2010 12:47 AM Dr Adequate has responded

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 68 of 94 (551528)
03-23-2010 12:40 AM
Reply to: Message 64 by Granny Magda
03-23-2010 12:23 AM


Re: WARNING, FRIENDS! :
Granny Magda writes:

Buz, I've seen your idea of "evidence" and suffice to say, I didn't find it compelling.

The corroborating half has not been told, madear. That half becomes known as you experience it, personally from day to day.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Granny Magda, posted 03-23-2010 12:23 AM Granny Magda has not yet responded

  
Granny Magda
Member (Idle past 63 days)
Posts: 2380
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007


Message 69 of 94 (551529)
03-23-2010 12:41 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by Buzsaw
03-23-2010 12:18 AM


Re: Buzsaw Position: Jehovah vs Allah
Yes, most certainly, especially when the Jonny come lately hijacked data contradicts the older scriptures which declare Jesus to be the son of God.

Don't you get it Buz? That's how the Jews see you. Some Jesus-come-lately comes along, hijacks their scriptures, adds a load of his own ideas, contradicts the older scriptures... You may not think that the life of Christ contradicts Jewish Messianic prophecy, but Jews do think that. As far as most Jews are concerned, you Christian chaps came along, ripped off their religion and messed it up; exactly as with your complaint about Islam.

Somewhere, a Jew is reading this and laughing his kosher ass off at you. "The chutzpah of these Christians! They turn up, steal our holy scriptures, our ancestral stories, and then, when someone else does the same to them, they complain! The hypocritical schmucks!"

Doubtless, you'll say "Ah, but when we did it, we got it right." and cite prophecy as your proof. You should be aware though, that any good Muslim would do exactly the same in response to Christianity.

Mutate and Survive


This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Buzsaw, posted 03-23-2010 12:18 AM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by Buzsaw, posted 03-23-2010 12:54 AM Granny Magda has responded

    
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1868
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 70 of 94 (551531)
03-23-2010 12:46 AM
Reply to: Message 61 by Buzsaw
03-23-2010 12:13 AM


Re: Buzsaw Position: Jehovah vs Allah
I do not fear the Muslim entities, Doc, nor do I regard facts about Islam as blasphemy.

So you're a hypocrit, afterall you did say that blasphemy was:
A contemptuous or profane act, utterance, or writing concerning God or a sacred entity.

and yet here you are being contemptuous about a sacred entity.:

I maintain that he hijacked what suited his fancy from the Bible so as to gain legitimacy and win converts

By your logic I wouldn't be blashpeming if I said that Jesus liked to have relations with prostitutes.

Edited by DrJones*, : No reason given.


It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry

Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor
This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Buzsaw, posted 03-23-2010 12:13 AM Buzsaw has acknowledged this reply

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 71 of 94 (551532)
03-23-2010 12:47 AM
Reply to: Message 67 by Dr Adequate
03-23-2010 12:35 AM


Re: Buzsaw Position: Jehovah vs Allah
Dr Adequate writes:

No, you still don't get it.

I get it, now, Doc,, what you and Paul3 have explained; that the Muslim god has no proper name and having no proper name, can't be one and the same as the Biblical god who's proper name is Jehovah.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-23-2010 12:35 AM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by DrJones*, posted 03-23-2010 12:49 AM Buzsaw has responded
 Message 74 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-23-2010 1:12 AM Buzsaw has not yet responded
 Message 83 by bluescat48, posted 03-23-2010 3:37 PM Buzsaw has responded

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1868
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 72 of 94 (551533)
03-23-2010 12:49 AM
Reply to: Message 71 by Buzsaw
03-23-2010 12:47 AM


Re: Buzsaw Position: Jehovah vs Allah
that the Muslim god has no proper name and having no proper name, can't be one and the same as the Biblical god who's proper name is Jehovah.

No, they're the same god, the christians just got some things wrong.


It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry

Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor
This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Buzsaw, posted 03-23-2010 12:47 AM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Buzsaw, posted 03-23-2010 8:56 AM DrJones* has responded

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 73 of 94 (551537)
03-23-2010 12:54 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by Granny Magda
03-23-2010 12:41 AM


Re: Buzsaw Position: Jehovah vs Allah
Thousands of Jews have received and acknowledged Jesus as lord and savior, Granny, particularly those who are apprised of the OT prophecies of him which confirm his messiahship.

One of those prophets, Zechariah, has declared that when he comes in the 2nd Advent at the time of Armageddon they will look upon him whom they pierced and mourn.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Granny Magda, posted 03-23-2010 12:41 AM Granny Magda has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by Granny Magda, posted 03-23-2010 1:17 AM Buzsaw has responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16097
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 74 of 94 (551540)
03-23-2010 1:12 AM
Reply to: Message 71 by Buzsaw
03-23-2010 12:47 AM


Re: Buzsaw Position: Jehovah vs Allah
I get it, now, Doc,, what you and Paul3 have explained; that the Muslim god has no proper name and having no proper name, can't be one and the same as the Biblical god who's proper name is Jehovah.

Well I'm not sure that you do get it, because that's not what we were arguing about. I never said that they were the same god.

What I said was that "Allah" is the Arabic word for "God".

If you want to convince me that you "get it now", then repeat after me:

I now understand that "Allah" is in no way the personal name of the god of the Muslims. In fact, it is just the Arabic word for "God". Thank you, Dr Adequate, for taking the time and trouble to explain this to me.

You can leave off that last sentence if you like. But I call the moderators to witness how patient I have been, and I would ask them to take this into account and to forgive me for the next time that my wit outruns my patience. I have been sorely tried.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Buzsaw, posted 03-23-2010 12:47 AM Buzsaw has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by Percy, posted 03-23-2010 8:35 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
Granny Magda
Member (Idle past 63 days)
Posts: 2380
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007


Message 75 of 94 (551542)
03-23-2010 1:17 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by Buzsaw
03-23-2010 12:54 AM


Re: Buzsaw Position: Jehovah vs Allah
Do you ever get distracted by the sound of things whooshing over your head? The number of Jews who've converted isn't the point. The point is that Jews see Christianity and say "They Changed it, Now it Sucks!"

Do you at least understand the point I'm making? That Jews see Christianity the way you see Islam? That they see you and the Muslims as upstarts and Johnny-come-lately? Okay, you think they're wrong, I get that, but you can surely see the similarities?

Millions of Jews see Christianity the way you see Islam. I'm not asking you to say that they're right, but can you at least appreciate that point of view?

Mutate and Survive


This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by Buzsaw, posted 03-23-2010 12:54 AM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by Buzsaw, posted 03-23-2010 9:08 AM Granny Magda has acknowledged this reply

    
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