Health care reform almost at the finish line... correction: it's finished

I would just like to hear the truth. I'd like to hear a non-partisan, non-political explanation of what it entails. I'm not a lawyer and I don't have time to read the bill itself, but I can't trust any source to not embellish something and put their spin on it.

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"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu

But what is it actually going to do? I am in need of insurance because I am a contractor (I consider myself a temp under contract) so i have no access to company funded insurance. I have a 6 year old son in my care (his mother lives in NY, my other son gets badgercare along with my g/f, his mother). I have tried to price out private insurance and it is utterly ridiculous, to say the least. i simply cannot afford it. i have tried to jump through the hoops to get Badgercare for at lest my son, and now they tell me I make too much money.if this bill does nothing for me and people like me, fuck it. Especially if it makes insurance mandatory (which I doubt it does){abe} I realize that last line sounds rather selfish. I did not intend it that way. All I meant was to say that, isn't the whole point of "health care reform" to make health care more affordable? if not, what's the point?Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.

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"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu

A one time fine? If so, what good is that? If not, if it is a monthly fine or any sort of recurring fine, how do they expect people to pay it if they can't afford insurance? I can't see any logic in forcing people to be insured if the insurance rates stay as expensive as they are. That would be great, and I agree. however, there are plenty of people that are unable to get company insurance (me). So now again, we are forced to buy private insurance at outrageous prices. And that, I'm afraid, is exactly what would happen. Sure, Obama says he is going to try and reign in the insurance companies about their premiums, but I doubt it. Are state run programs going to be shut down? Badgercare (and Badgercare plus) in Wisconsin may not be the best, but it is there and at least all kids are guaranteed coverage. My g/f and both her kids get everything covered absolutely free. Connecticut's Charter Oak state run insurance plan is awesome (which makes it all the more funny for Lieberman to be against universal insurance). I've been reading about numerous states (michigan for starters) where many places are no longer accepting Medicare. Seattle's Walgreens are not accepting Medicare for prescriptions. I like this as well. WHAT? That's close to $2,000 a MONTH!! I can't afford that.
Who can? It still seems as though health insurance is something for the elite, not the working class.All in all, if this is what the bill is, it still leaves alot to be answered and wanted. I really can't stress enough the importance of simply making it more affordable. THAT in and of itself should have been the goal.

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"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu

I actually thought it would be worse. However, until we can get some sort of competition for these big insurance companies (*example: every state has a solid public plan), we won't get anything better.*I'm just throwing this out there because I see there ARE states with solid programs. i know not what the full ramifications costwise are for such programs. Take it with a grain of salt.

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"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu

I mentioned this to our in-house Union electrician. At the time, I didn't know much (much less than I do now thanks to you) and his response was that he liked his plan (it seemed like a good one to me too) so he didn't like the idea of his taxes going up to pay for other people. The same response was had from another conservative I work with.I somewhat think the same thing (albeit, admittedly i am not knowledgable on the subject enough): we already pay 1/4 of our income to Uncle Sam in taxes, medicare, social security. How much would we have had to raise them to pay for insurance?

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"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu

Right, I get that. but that's what they are afraid of. They see how poor medicare/medicaid is, and they don't want to give up their private high quality insurance out of fear of getting poor care from the government instead.

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"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu

They've had their hands in our pockets this long and it is only getting worse. What makes you think they are going to change? With no oversight, they just get more and more greedy.

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"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu

While I do agree with this as a possibility, I have a hard time (as I mentioned in my first post on this topic) believing such biased sources: sources that outright demonize the bill. That does no good. What corporation? How is the system we have now not already about profit? I'd have to actually see this in the bill.

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"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu

You keep saying "corporate" like there is this big mega-machine conglomerate health insurance company. I don't get it. I'm not too keen on buzzwords. I don't have health insurance.Do you have any non-biased sources?I just stumbled upon this site with "facts" about the reform. I'm not trying to say this bill is super-duper-spectacular, but if nothing gets done, people will still suffer. This seems as though it will afford more people the opportunity to get coverage. Not sure if you know what it's like to have kids and not be insured, then have to go to the emergency room for everything, only to get stuck with a $800 bill for what turns out to be nothing. I do.

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"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu

What federal health care? Are we getting Universal Health care?

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"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu

As do I. However, would you have preferred if nothing got done? I hate to just accept the worse of 2 evils/take whatever we can, but was anything being done about health care otherwise?

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"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu

Yes, I've already pointed out 2 states in particular. However, there are strict income guidelines. I have also priced out private insurance, and making 45k/yr, I am in no mans land: I make too much for BadgerCare, too little for private. Wisconsin is expensive. I can get cheap private (like $100/mo., but it covers shit. no prescriptions, $10,000 deductible, $250 co-pay, etc. The "good" insurance is in upwards of $1500/mo.

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"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu

But I am a temp (hiring freeze, company is outsourcing, I've been a temp now for 2 years) so i am not eligible for company insurance. I'm in the same boat you are. So do I. Although, I am leaning toward state run socialized medicine since it seems as though there are plenty of states that already do it well, which at least makes me think it's a viable option. Agreed. But you and I both know universal health care is not going to come to the U.S. anytime soon, so at least this is something, right? I really hate to pit party lines, since I see the gub'ment as a single entity, but, I think most liberals wanted a single payer system that is good for society. It's just that the right scared everyone into thinking that means communism/socialism/marxism/naziism, and the Dems were too scared/weak to keep at it. So they compromised with an uncompromising right thus resulting in what we have now. How many times did we hear about a Republican saying there is no way he will vote yes for anything a Democrat proposes just because of his/her party ties?

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"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu

That's par for the course in the good 'ole U.S. of A. my friend. Now you see why the uproar over our health insurance?Oh, and his $600/mo? (just going out on a limb here) that's going to include a deductible of at least 500 bucks, $25 co-pay, shit prescription coverage (if any), and very limited "network" meaning the number of doctors you can see is limited. Correct me if I'm wrong, Rahvin.

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"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu

We pay a co-pay for every standard office visit. Say I go to get a physical. The physical itself is covered (provided I've already paid my high ass deductible), I still have to pay a co-pay. They range anywhere from $10 to $40. And that is every visit, up front, before you get seen.The $500 deductible? yea, that is a LOW ass deductible. Any plan with that low of a deductible is going to be at least around $300/mo (that is a low ball estimate with all other options being for shit.)

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"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu