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Author Topic:   Health care reform almost at the finish line... correction: it's finished
nwr
Member
Posts: 6409
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 91 of 174 (551329)
03-22-2010 11:52 AM


Disappointed at a promise taken away
One of the promises of passing a health care bill has been taken away.
Yes, that's right. Limbaugh has withdrawn his promise to move to Costa Rica.

Replies to this message:
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 827 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 92 of 174 (551336)
03-22-2010 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Taz
03-22-2010 11:37 AM


I know I should, but it's so damned boring.

"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan
"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu

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Taz
Member (Idle past 3317 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 93 of 174 (551352)
03-22-2010 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by nwr
03-22-2010 11:52 AM


Re: Disappointed at a promise taken away
Damn you for being bringer of bad news. I was gettign ready to celebrate the departure of Brother Limbaugh.

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Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4042
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 8.0


Message 94 of 174 (551354)
03-22-2010 1:09 PM


Better summary of the bill that was actually passed:
From Reuters:
quote:
FACTBOX-US healthcare bill would provide immediate benefits
Fri Mar 19, 2010 6:46pm EDT
WASHINGTON, March 19 (Reuters) - The U.S. House of Representatives is heading for a Sunday vote on a sweeping overhaul of the $2.5 trillion U.S. healthcare system.
Regulatory News | Bonds
House Democrats are confident they can overcome solid Republican opposition and pass the bill. Leaders are using a two-step process where the House approves Senate-passed legislation and then votes for a separate package of changes to satisfy concerns of House Democrats. The Senate is expected to approve those changes as well and President Barack Obama plans to sign the bill into law.
Here is what to expect if the bill becomes law:
WITHIN THE FIRST YEAR OF ENACTMENT
*Insurance companies will be barred from dropping people from coverage when they get sick. Lifetime coverage limits will be eliminated and annual limits are to be restricted.
*Insurers will be barred from excluding children for coverage because of pre-existing conditions.
*Young adults will be able to stay on their parents' health plans until the age of 26. Many health plans currently drop dependents from coverage when they turn 19 or finish college.
*Uninsured adults with a pre-existing conditions will be able to obtain health coverage through a new program that will expire once new insurance exchanges begin operating in 2014.
*A temporary reinsurance program is created to help companies maintain health coverage for early retirees between the ages of 55 and 64. This also expires in 2014.
*Medicare drug beneficiaries who fall into the "doughnut hole" coverage gap will get a $250 rebate. The bill eventually closes that gap which currently begins after $2,700 is spent on drugs. Coverage starts again after $6,154 is spent.
*A tax credit becomes available for some small businesses to help provide coverage for workers.
*A 10 percent tax on indoor tanning services that use ultraviolet lamps goes into effect on July 1.
WHAT HAPPENS IN 2011
*Medicare provides 10 percent bonus payments to primary care physicians and general surgeons.
*Medicare beneficiaries will be able to get a free annual wellness visit and personalized prevention plan service. New health plans will be required to cover preventive services with little or no cost to patients.
*A new program under the Medicaid plan for the poor goes into effect in October that allows states to offer home and community based care for the disabled that might otherwise require institutional care.
*Payments to insurers offering Medicare Advantage services are frozen at 2010 levels. These payments are to be gradually reduced to bring them more in line with traditional Medicare.
*Employers are required to disclose the value of health benefits on employees' W-2 tax forms.
*An annual fee is imposed on pharmaceutical companies according to market share. The fee does not apply to companies with sales of $5 million or less.
WHAT HAPPENS IN 2012
*Physician payment reforms are implemented in Medicare to enhance primary care services and encourage doctors to form "accountable care organizations" to improve quality and efficiency of care.
*An incentive program is established in Medicare for acute care hospitals to improve quality outcomes.
*The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, which oversees the government programs, begin tracking hospital readmission rates and puts in place financial incentives to reduce preventable readmissions.
WHAT HAPPENS IN 2013
*A national pilot program is established for Medicare on payment bundling to encourage doctors, hospitals and other care providers to better coordinate patient care.
*The threshold for claiming medical expenses on itemized tax returns is raised to 10 percent from 7.5 percent of income. The threshold remains at 7.5 percent for the elderly through 2016.
*The Medicare payroll tax is raised to 2.35 percent from 1.45 percent for individuals earning more than $200,000 and married couples with incomes over $250,000. The tax is imposed on some investment income for that income group.
*A 2.9 percent excise tax in imposed on the sale of medical devices. Anything generally purchased at the retail level by the public is excluded from the tax.
WHAT HAPPENS IN 2014
*State health insurance exchanges for small businesses and individuals open.
*Most people will be required to obtain health insurance coverage or pay a fine if they don't. Healthcare tax credits become available to help people with incomes up to 400 percent of poverty purchase coverage on the exchange.
*Health plans no longer can exclude people from coverage due to pre-existing conditions.
*Employers with 50 or more workers who do not offer coverage face a fine of $2,000 for each employee if any worker receives subsidized insurance on the exchange. The first 30 employees aren't counted for the fine.
*Health insurance companies begin paying a fee based on their market share.
WHAT HAPPENS IN 2015
*Medicare creates a physician payment program aimed at rewarding quality of care rather than volume of services.
WHAT HAPPENS IN 2018
*An excise tax on high cost employer-provided plans is imposed. The first $27,500 of a family plan and $10,200 for individual coverage is exempt from the tax. Higher levels are set for plans covering retirees and people in high risk professions. (Reporting by Donna Smith; Editing by David Alexander and Eric Beech)
At first read, this looks pretty damned good. The Reuters reporters managed to fit in a few of the methods that we'll use to pay for all of this: an excise tax on medical supplies, fees based on market share for insurance and pharmaceutical companies, etc. I found that nice.
The "Cadillac tax" cap has gone up by a few thousand dollars per year, which means fewer people will need to worry about it (union boys, you may be safe?).
The whole plan is a nice, steady pace of change as opposed to a sudden, massive restructuring,. Insurance companies won't be forced to accept people with pre-existing conditions at first, so we set up a program to take care of those people until that part of the bill kicks in. A lot of the taxes and fees don't start until a few years down the line, so it'll pay for itself better as time goes on.
I still don't think it's anywhere near perfect, but the fact is this should be viewed as the beginning, not the end, of healthcare reform in the US. This is a decent start to reforming a system that is inherently broken at the core.
ABE: Employers will be mandated to put their portion of health insurance payments on our W-2's, so Flyer will never again need to jump through hoops to find out what his employer is paying. I like that.
Edited by Rahvin, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.4


Message 95 of 174 (551355)
03-22-2010 1:10 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by nwr
03-22-2010 11:52 AM


Re: Disappointed at a promise taken away
The irony in that being that Costa Rica has universal health care anyway...

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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 827 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 96 of 174 (551359)
03-22-2010 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by Rahvin
03-22-2010 1:09 PM


Re: Better summary of the bill that was actually passed:
*Young adults will be able to stay on their parents' health plans until the age of 26. Many health plans currently drop dependents from coverage when they turn 19 or finish college.
So we were watching this last night and my brother-in-law's friend stopped by. I had already detailed the majority of the bill to my bro (which he previously was clueless about: he doesn't watch the news at all), and he was all for it because he has a type of brain tumor=impossible to insure if he loses medicare. So his buddy comes in and we tell him what we are watching and he's all like "fuck that, I'm against it, it's gonna make insurance more expensive". I rebutted his points, then he went on to say he had gotten back on his dad's insurance plan this year. He's 24 years old. I was like "uhhh, that's thanks to THIS bill". He pretty much changed his position almost immediately.

"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan
"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu

This message is a reply to:
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Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4042
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 8.0


Message 97 of 174 (551362)
03-22-2010 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by hooah212002
03-22-2010 1:19 PM


Re: Better summary of the bill that was actually passed:
I was like "uhhh, that's thanks to THIS bill". He pretty much changed his position almost immediately.
Imagine that.
It's unfortunate, but the healthcare debate doesn't seem to very often engage human compassion. Quite literally, people are saying "I don't care if people die and suffer - it's the AMERICAN WAY!" It's just another "fuck you, I've got mine" situation, like so much else.
People tend to change their minds very quickly when they or someone they care about is directly affected.

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cavediver
Member (Idle past 3669 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 98 of 174 (551365)
03-22-2010 2:04 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by Rahvin
03-22-2010 1:42 PM


Re: Better summary of the bill that was actually passed:
Quite literally, people are saying "I don't care if people die and suffer - it's the AMERICAN WAY!"
I'm not sure what is funnier, the American right-wing teabagging attitude towards health care reform, or the British media (esp BBC) reaction to the American right-wing teabagging attitude towards health care reform:
"Bu, bu, bu, but they just *can't* be that stupid... can they???"

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Taq
Member
Posts: 10067
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 99 of 174 (551374)
03-22-2010 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by cavediver
03-22-2010 2:04 PM


Re: Better summary of the bill that was actually passed:
"Bu, bu, bu, but they just *can't* be that stupid... can they???"
Yes, they can be that stupid.

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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 100 of 174 (551376)
03-22-2010 3:32 PM


Docs Out Gub'mt Agents In
Thousands of the best MDs will quit, especially the ones who've already rejected Medicare patients due to gub'mt mandates.
Sixteen thousand new IRS agents will be hired to enforce mandatory purchase of premiums and other new and increased taxes.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

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Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4042
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 8.0


Message 101 of 174 (551379)
03-22-2010 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by Buzsaw
03-22-2010 3:32 PM


Re: Docs Out Gub'mt Agents In
Thousands of the best MDs will quit, especially the ones who've already rejected Medicare patients due to gub'mt mandates.
Sixteen thousand new IRS agents will be hired to enforce mandatory purchase of premiums and other new and increased taxes.
Do you have evidence for those claims, Buz? If not, I fail to see why any of us should heed your warning.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Buzsaw, posted 03-22-2010 3:32 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
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nwr
Member
Posts: 6409
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 102 of 174 (551382)
03-22-2010 3:48 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by Buzsaw
03-22-2010 3:32 PM


Re: Docs Out Gub'mt Agents In
Buzsaw writes:
Thousands of the best MDs will quit, especially the ones who've already rejected Medicare patients due to gub'mt mandates.
That's what they said in Canada, when they went to single payer system. And physicians actually went on strike in some areas. Yet, when all of the posturing and demonstrating was over, the Canadian system worked, and it still works.

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Taq
Member
Posts: 10067
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 103 of 174 (551393)
03-22-2010 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by Buzsaw
03-22-2010 3:32 PM


Re: Docs Out Gub'mt Agents In
Thousands of the best MDs will quit, especially the ones who've already rejected Medicare patients due to gub'mt mandates.
Those don't sound like the type of docs we want in this country anyway. If you aren't interested in helping people then perhaps you shouldn't be a doctor.
Sixteen thousand new IRS agents will be hired to enforce mandatory purchase of premiums and other new and increased taxes.
See, this new health bill is already producing new jobs. Not bad.

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Taz
Member (Idle past 3317 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 104 of 174 (551439)
03-22-2010 6:35 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by Buzsaw
03-22-2010 3:32 PM


Buz's heroes versus a professor with Parkinson's Disease

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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 827 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 105 of 174 (551467)
03-22-2010 8:46 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Taz
03-22-2010 11:37 AM


But yes, it's a historic moment, comrad.
Was there a bit of sarcasm in the "comrad"? My sarcasm detector is a tad off as of late. If so....really? I can't imagine you as the type to say this would bring us to a communist state.
In other news, my wonderful state of Wisconsin is trying to sue the federal government to stip on having to acknowledge this bill.
Republicans in the Legislature, the two Republican candidates for governor and leaders of Wisconsin's tea party movement are all urging fellow Republican Van Hollen to file a lawsuit.
http://www.fox6now.com/news/sns-ap-wi--healthcareoverhaul-wis,0,2296420.story.

"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan
"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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