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Author Topic:   Health care reform almost at the finish line... correction: it's finished
Taz
Member (Idle past 3312 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 106 of 174 (551471)
03-22-2010 9:04 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by hooah212002
03-22-2010 8:46 PM


My dear comrade hooah, aren't we so happy that we have succeeded in convincing a large portion of the American population to follow Comrade Stalin's final plan? Soon, American democracy will fall and we communists (aka liberals) will succeed in enslaving the American people in the name of Comrade Stalin.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by hooah212002, posted 03-22-2010 8:46 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by hooah212002, posted 03-23-2010 12:37 AM Taz has replied
 Message 116 by Wounded King, posted 03-23-2010 5:10 AM Taz has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 107 of 174 (551472)
03-22-2010 9:08 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by Rahvin
03-22-2010 3:43 PM


Re: Docs Out Gub'mt Agents In
According to An Investors Business Daily Pole, 65% of MDs oppose the Obama Health Care and 45% will consider hanging it up.
As for the agents, GOP Rep John Boehner on Fox:
Boehner on Fox. ObabaCare includes an additional $10 billion to hire 16,000 new IRS agents to track your bank accounts to ensure you are paying for mandated health insurance and paying what the government deems sufficient. Just what we need. Wonder what else they'll be tracking in your bank accounts. Apparently, the $ 828 billion bailout of 2009 already gives the IRS the power to track your private accounts
Boehner: ObamaCare includes hiring 16,000 new IRS officers to track everyone's bank accounts

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by Rahvin, posted 03-22-2010 3:43 PM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by Rahvin, posted 03-22-2010 9:59 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 111 by Jazzns, posted 03-23-2010 12:49 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 112 by Theodoric, posted 03-23-2010 12:51 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 117 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-23-2010 8:38 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 118 by Taq, posted 03-23-2010 10:12 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4039
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 8.1


Message 108 of 174 (551485)
03-22-2010 9:59 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by Buzsaw
03-22-2010 9:08 PM


Re: Docs Out Gub'mt Agents In
65% of MDs oppose the Obama Health Care and 45% will consider hanging it up.
For some reason, I'm skeptical that doctors will abandon years of expensive education and all of their experience in their trade simply because of this healthcare bill.
Especially since the bill gives 10% bonus payments to primary care physicians and general surgeons.
That, and reading your source makes me question the results. It contradicts the Doctor's own lobby, as the article itself states, and "results are still coming in," which means they didn't even finish counting the responses before writing up a report.
I don't doubt more IRS agents will be hired. I also don't particularly care. More jobs, fewer people getting away with tax evasion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Buzsaw, posted 03-22-2010 9:08 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 822 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 109 of 174 (551527)
03-23-2010 12:37 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by Taz
03-22-2010 9:04 PM


Easy to say for someone who has insurance.....
Easy to say for someone who doesn't have a pre-existing condition.....
Easy to say for someone who doesn't have medical bills that are bankrupting them.....
Easy to say for someone who doesn't fear for the day their child gets sick because they can't afford to take them to the hospital.......
Easy to say for someone who doesn't have to use his girlfriend's asthma medicine because he can't afford his own prescription.......
You can go ahead and become a communist if you feel the need, I'll go ahead and get proper insurance.

"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan
"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Taz, posted 03-22-2010 9:04 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9140
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 110 of 174 (551530)
03-23-2010 12:45 AM
Reply to: Message 100 by Buzsaw
03-22-2010 3:32 PM


Re: Docs Out Gub'mt Agents In
Do you really want to talk about Md'S? I think you may be talking out your ass, but then again maybe you have some insight. Doubt it

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Buzsaw, posted 03-22-2010 3:32 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3932 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 111 of 174 (551534)
03-23-2010 12:49 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by Buzsaw
03-22-2010 9:08 PM


Re: Docs Out Gub'mt Agents In
That pole is quite disputed:
Nate Silver writes:
1. The survey was conducted by mail, which is unusual. The only other mail-based poll that I'm aware of is that conducted by the Columbus Dispatch, which was associated with an average error of about 7 percentage points -- the highest of any pollster that we tested.
2. At least one of the questions is blatantly biased: "Do you believe the government can cover 47 million more people and it will cost less money and th quality of care will be better?". Holy run-on-sentence, Batman? A pollster who asks a question like this one is not intending to be objective.
3. As we learned during the Presidntial campaign -- when, among other things, they had John McCain winning the youth vote 74-22 -- the IBD/TIPP polling operation has literally no idea what they're doing. I mean, literally none. For example, I don't trust IBD/TIPP to have competently selected anything resembling a random panel, which is harder to do than you'd think.
4. They say, somewhat ambiguously: "Responses are still coming in." This is also highly unorthodox. Professional pollsters generally do not report results before the survey period is compete.
5. There is virtually no disclosure about methodology. For example, IBD doesn't bother to define the term "practicing physician", which could mean almost anything. Nor do they explain how their randomization procedure worked, provide the entire question battery, or anything like that.
Page not found – FiveThirtyEight
IBD is notorious for their ridiculous polls. The reality will be born out when 45% of docs do not in fact quit their jobs.
Edited by Jazzns, : No reason given.

If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be. --Thomas Jefferson

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Buzsaw, posted 03-22-2010 9:08 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9140
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 112 of 174 (551535)
03-23-2010 12:51 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by Buzsaw
03-22-2010 9:08 PM


Re: Docs Out Gub'mt Agents In
Investors Business daily is not at all reputable polling organization. You might want to look at the AMA. Or are they a leftist organization?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Buzsaw, posted 03-22-2010 9:08 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3312 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 113 of 174 (551553)
03-23-2010 1:59 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by hooah212002
03-23-2010 12:37 AM


Hahaha, I'll stop joking around now.
If anything, I don't think the health care reform bill went far enough. I was even toying with the idea of signing up for the public option. But now that it's not in the package...
Added by edit.
And I'm talking as someone that has never ever had any medical condition. At all. I've only been to the emergency room twice. The first time I got ran over by a dumbass semi-drunk driver as a pedestrian. Thank goodness, I only limped a few months after that. The second time a dumbass in the gym dropped a weight on my toe. It hurt like hell and I needed to get it x-rayed to see if anything was broken. Turned out nothing was broken and all I needed was some pain meds.
I live by a simple philosophy. We experience this world through our unique vessel (aka our body). Therefore, it is MY JOB to keep MY BODY as healthy as possible to experience this world to the fullest. I hit the gym almost everyday. I watch what I eat. I snack on oranges, grapes, bananas, and other fruits. In fact, fresh fruits and vegetables fill up almost a third of my frige. I don't drink soda pop. I don't smoke. I rarely ever drink, and when I do drink you better see me dance like a fool on the dance floor. And yes, I kinda look down on people who are overweight. It's a part of me that I'm still trying to overcome, damn it.
I do consider myself blessed for not having any health problem at all like asthma and diabetes. Heck, I rarely ever get sick. At times when it seems like everyone around me is coughing and sneezing, I'd be perfectly fine. At the same time, I recognize that there are people that get hit by illnesses and diseases of all kinds. And even though I'm considered a low risk customer to the insurance company, I would never trust them, ever. I've heard enough stories of how insurance companies screw people over for profit to know they absolutely don't have my best interest in mind. All they care about are their stock options and how much money they can squeeze out of you.
People often talk about how people in the past suffered greatly under supposed communist regimes. What most people tend to ignore is that unregulated capitalism also brought on some of the worst human rights violation in history.
And no, I'm not a communist. I just don't trust private corporations.
Edited by Taz, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by hooah212002, posted 03-23-2010 12:37 AM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 857 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 114 of 174 (551557)
03-23-2010 2:51 AM


Belly of the Beast
The person representing my district in the House of Representatives is Randy Neugebauer, who just a few days ago distinguished himself by shouting out "baby killer" during the speech by Stupaick.
This is what my region elected as their 'best and brightest.'
Granted Neugabauer later gave some half-assed apology for his preschool outburst, however I don't for one believe it was either honest or sincere.
When it comes to the USA it is the belly of the beast, more evidence I am on the front line in the fight against racism, homophobia, confederacyphilia, and prideful ignorance.
But you don't have to take my word for it, ask Coragyps.
Edited by anglagard, : space between front and line

The idea of the sacred is quite simply one of the most conservative notions in any culture, because it seeks to turn other ideas - uncertainty, progress, change - into crimes.
Salman Rushdie
This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It’s us. Only us. - the character Rorschach in Watchmen

Replies to this message:
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Taz
Member (Idle past 3312 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 115 of 174 (551562)
03-23-2010 3:39 AM
Reply to: Message 114 by anglagard
03-23-2010 2:51 AM


Re: Belly of the Beast
Protesters outside the capitol have been yelling out "nigger" to black congressmen and "faggot" to Barney Frank.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by anglagard, posted 03-23-2010 2:51 AM anglagard has not replied

  
Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 116 of 174 (551568)
03-23-2010 5:10 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by Taz
03-22-2010 9:04 PM


Inverted Russian reversal
In soviet America Health Care Services serve you! Wait, that didn't sound quite right?!
TTFN,
WK
Edited by Wounded King, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 117 of 174 (551583)
03-23-2010 8:38 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by Buzsaw
03-22-2010 9:08 PM


Re: Docs Out Gub'mt Agents In
Could I point out that quoting mad people does not strengthen your case?
You started off with Investor's Business Daily, the deficiencies of which have been pointed out to you ... and then you moved on to citing something you read on freerepublic?
* shakes head in bewilderment *
Freerepublic? Really? If I wanted to explain the idiom "letting the lunatics run the asylum", that site would be my first choice of an illustrative example.

This message is a reply to:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 10033
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 118 of 174 (551599)
03-23-2010 10:12 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by Buzsaw
03-22-2010 9:08 PM


Re: Docs Out Gub'mt Agents In
According to An Investors Business Daily Pole, 65% of MDs oppose the Obama Health Care and 45% will consider hanging it up.
I could care less what doctors think of this bill. What matters is how it helps ALL AMERICANS. If doctors are quitting because they are in it purely for the money then good riddance.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Buzsaw, posted 03-22-2010 9:08 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by Flyer75, posted 03-23-2010 10:47 AM Taq has replied

  
Flyer75
Member (Idle past 2443 days)
Posts: 242
From: Dayton, OH
Joined: 02-15-2010


Message 119 of 174 (551606)
03-23-2010 10:38 AM


I can see I'm totally in the minority here but think about this: the government has now mandated that we, as free citizens, are REQUIRED to purchase a product from the government or be penalized! In America! Seriously?? What if this were housing, or an automobile? Would you all still be for that? Of course you would! Why? Because for some of you (not all of course) others are fitting the bill.
I know that something needed to be about health care but I just feel ill that we've gotten to a point where our government is MANDATING the purchase of a product. This is truly a historic moment for the country. Do I think this is leading us to Stalinism as someone sarcastically suggested here? No...that would require a dictatorship but what just passed Sunday is exactly what the Founding Fathers were AGAINST in setting up this country.
Just my .02 cents worth.

Replies to this message:
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 Message 127 by hooah212002, posted 03-23-2010 1:24 PM Flyer75 has not replied
 Message 141 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-23-2010 9:41 PM Flyer75 has not replied

  
Flyer75
Member (Idle past 2443 days)
Posts: 242
From: Dayton, OH
Joined: 02-15-2010


Message 120 of 174 (551608)
03-23-2010 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 118 by Taq
03-23-2010 10:12 AM


Re: Docs Out Gub'mt Agents In
Taq writes:
I could care less what doctors think of this bill. What matters is how it helps ALL AMERICANS. If doctors are quitting because they are in it purely for the money then good riddance.
What a ludicrous statement to make. Have you studied why this country has been the world's leader in innovation and why this country can single handily feed darn near the rest of the world. It's called capitalism and innovation. Without the desire for money, there is no incentive to produce, anything really. It's why the USSR couldn't overtake Afghanistan in 10 years of fighting and we swept through there in 3 weeks. It's why citizens of the USSR came over here and wept at the sight of our supermarkets and the amount of food available to us, the amount of cars available to us, the amount of computers and TV available to us. Look at our "poor" compared to the world's POOR. There's a reason why our "poor" have big screen TVs and a Play Station 3 in their homes.....it's called capitalism. It's called, we have people in this country with the incentive to become millionaires and better the way we all live.
My best friends dad started the leasing concept of cars in this country. It's because of the vision he had, and yes, the want to makes tons of money, that millions of Americans live a lifestyle of leasing cars and driving brand new cars at an affordable price. Some of you have probably used that luxury we have in this country. That is just one example of an AMERICAN capitalstic venture that the world is now benefiting from. I could give thousands of examples of this.
And for your example Taq, we have the BEST health care in the world because doctors are doing it for the money...there's a reason why Canadians flock here for surgeries. It's because we have the best doctors in the world. Say good riddance to them if you'd like.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by Taq, posted 03-23-2010 10:12 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 123 by Taq, posted 03-23-2010 11:27 AM Flyer75 has replied

  
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