Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 63 (9072 total)
64 online now:
dwise1, nwr (2 members, 62 visitors)
Newest Member: FossilDiscovery
Post Volume: Total: 893,162 Year: 4,274/6,534 Month: 488/900 Week: 12/182 Day: 12/28 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Evidence for Intelligent Design-is there any?
Bio-molecularTony
Member (Idle past 4613 days)
Posts: 90
Joined: 09-23-2008


Message 211 of 220 (485716)
10-10-2008 9:39 PM
Reply to: Message 201 by RAZD
10-05-2008 3:27 PM


All that is lacking is HONESTY
"RAZD: Except that this is just your assertion and not evidence. Evidence is something we can each observe, and all I see are natural processes without need of any "superhuman" embellishment. These are the same processes evident in all life, the same chemical reactions within cells, year after year."

http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/index.php?command=view&id=3059

Over the last 25 years, scientists have discovered an exquisite world of nanotechnology within living cells. Inside these tiny labyrinthine enclosures, scientists have found functioning turbines, miniature pumps, sliding clamps, complex circuits, rotary engines, and machines for copying, reading and editing digital information-hardly the simple "globules of plasm" envisioned by Darwin's contemporaries.

Moreover, most of these circuits and machines depend on the coordinated function of many separate parts. For example, scientists have discovered that bacterial cells are propelled by miniature rotary engines called flagellar motors that rotate at speeds up to 100,000 rpm. These engines look for all-the world as if they were designed by the Mazda corporation, with many distinct mechanical parts (made of proteins) including rotors, stators, O-rings, bushings, U-joints, and drive shafts.

TONY: IQ tests can grade your intelligence. The workmanship of your hand will be judged by others as to your skill level. Your answers to test questions in school examines evaluate your qualifications to move up the next level. All this testing measures Intelligence, Knowledge, and wisdom.

This is nothing new man has been doing this for thousands of years. We even test animal’s skill levels and intelligence. Doctors will evaluate patience in the hospital on there present level of intelligence because of a stroke.

The human race is not as stupid as you might imagine. We can measure intelligence from the handy work of any creature alive or now dead.

All that man is (life) - screams INTELLIGENCE GREATER THEN MAN.
We need supercomputers just to help crunch the coded information in the DNA programming so as to make sense of it all.

We're tinkering with something way over our heads here boys. That we can even understand it is a contradiction and a paradox in itself. Common sense would have us think that could never happen - to understand ourselves, how we are made.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 201 by RAZD, posted 10-05-2008 3:27 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 212 by Coyote, posted 10-10-2008 9:56 PM Bio-molecularTony has taken no action
 Message 213 by Coyote, posted 10-10-2008 9:56 PM Bio-molecularTony has taken no action
 Message 214 by RAZD, posted 10-10-2008 11:59 PM Bio-molecularTony has taken no action
 Message 215 by dogrelata, posted 10-11-2008 3:32 AM Bio-molecularTony has taken no action
 Message 216 by Admin, posted 10-11-2008 8:12 AM Bio-molecularTony has taken no action

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 1340 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 212 of 220 (485719)
10-10-2008 9:56 PM
Reply to: Message 211 by Bio-molecularTony
10-10-2008 9:39 PM


Re: disHONESTY
All that man is (life) - screams INTELLIGENCE GREATER THEN MAN.

So because you can't understand it, it must be a supernatural being. And if I was to guess, I would guess that supernatural being would greatly resemble the one in the bible.

That is quite a stretch for having no actual evidence!

And your quotation from the Discovery Institute--How can you quote such a disingenuous bunch of lawyers and PR flacks in a science forum? They are the absolute antithesis of science.

Have you read their Wedge Strategy? Here are a couple of choice passages:

quote:
We are building on this momentum, broadening the wedge with a positive scientific alternative to materialistic scientific theories, which has come to be called the theory of intelligent design (ID). Design theory promises to reverse the stifling dominance of the materialist worldview, and to replace it with a science consonant with Christian and theistic convictions.

Governing Goals

    * To defeat scientific materialism and its destructive moral, cultural and political legacies.
    * To replace materialistic explanations with the theistic understanding that nature and human beings are created by God.

Does any of that sound like science to you? Sounds more like they want to impost a theocracy and tell science what it must and must not research.

And they are the leading proponents of ID.

If they were actually looking for discoveries, they wouldn't be staffed largely by PR flacks and lawyers, now would they? They would have laboratories and a research budget, rather than a PR budget.

No, they are seeking to impose their religious views on the rest of us whether we want them or not. Yech!

Edited by Coyote, : spellling


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by Bio-molecularTony, posted 10-10-2008 9:39 PM Bio-molecularTony has taken no action

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 1340 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 213 of 220 (485720)
10-10-2008 9:56 PM
Reply to: Message 211 by Bio-molecularTony
10-10-2008 9:39 PM


Re: disHONESTY
Duplicate post deleted

Edited by Coyote, : No reason given.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by Bio-molecularTony, posted 10-10-2008 9:39 PM Bio-molecularTony has taken no action

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 639 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 214 of 220 (485728)
10-10-2008 11:59 PM
Reply to: Message 211 by Bio-molecularTony
10-10-2008 9:39 PM


Re: All that is lacking is HONESTY (and evidence ...)
Hello again, Bio-molecularTony.

Once again we see the ad hominem, the refuge of those without a valid argument to refute the opposition.

I agree that you are not being totally honest here (glad you warned me with the subtitle):

http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/index.php?command=view&id=3059

Over the last 25 years, scientists have discovered an exquisite world of nanotechnology within living cells. Inside these tiny labyrinthine enclosures, scientists have found functioning turbines, miniature pumps, sliding clamps, complex circuits, rotary engines, and machines for copying, reading and editing digital information-hardly the simple "globules of plasm" envisioned by Darwin's contemporaries.

Moreover, most of these circuits and machines depend on the coordinated function of many separate parts. For example, scientists have discovered that bacterial cells are propelled by miniature rotary engines called flagellar motors that rotate at speeds up to 100,000 rpm. These engines look for all-the world as if they were designed by the Mazda corporation, with many distinct mechanical parts (made of proteins) including rotors, stators, O-rings, bushings, U-joints, and drive shafts.

You forgot to say that these were all analogies to the way the cell operated by purely natural processes. Or do you think quoting someone giving analogies means that the analogies are the true function?

TONY: IQ tests can grade your intelligence. The workmanship of your hand will be judged by others as to your skill level. Your answers to test questions in school examines evaluate your qualifications to move up the next level. All this testing measures Intelligence, Knowledge, and wisdom.

This is nothing new man has been doing this for thousands of years. We even test animal’s skill levels and intelligence. Doctors will evaluate patience in the hospital on there present level of intelligence because of a stroke.

The human race is not as stupid as you might imagine. We can measure intelligence from the handy work of any creature alive or now dead.

Yes, and what we see across a broad band including other animals is that there is a difference in quantifiable levels within each kind of organism, but that overall there is a steady overlapping of what we can measure. There are smart chimps smarter than the dullest human. There is no difference in TYPE of intelligence, it is all one big spectrum.

All that man is (life) - screams INTELLIGENCE GREATER THEN MAN.

Still with the assertions, yet not forthcoming with the evidence. Curiously screaming has no discernible effect on reality.

We need supercomputers just to help crunch the coded information in the DNA programming so as to make sense of it all.

Which is still minuscule in relation to the capacity of trial and error experiments carried out by populations and generations of living organisms for the last 3.5 billion years. It is a very simple binary calculation: pass\fail. Do you have any idea of the numbers of organisms, the diversity of populations and the numbers of generations that such computations have been going on?

Enjoy.

Edited by RAZD, : slpg


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by Bio-molecularTony, posted 10-10-2008 9:39 PM Bio-molecularTony has taken no action

  
dogrelata
Member (Idle past 4546 days)
Posts: 201
From: Scotland
Joined: 08-04-2006


Message 215 of 220 (485736)
10-11-2008 3:32 AM
Reply to: Message 211 by Bio-molecularTony
10-10-2008 9:39 PM


Re: All that is lacking is HONESTY
Tony writes:

All that man is (life) - screams INTELLIGENCE GREATER THEN MAN.

I think you need to make your mind up about whether you consider human being to be a form of life or not. In this thread you say:

Tony writes:

Man is not alive, but a machine designed to think he is. If this is true, I win you lose. For I am debating with a stupid machine that imagines it is a living creature, which exists in an illusion of reality so cleverly disguised as REAL. God has that made a fool out of all of you. The so call great debators lose by default for they are themselves not real persons, but artificial illusions of "LIFE", imagining there is no creator in there darkened minds.

The joke is on you... it is you that does not really exist (As living) creations.

All so-called life is technology - artificial - machinery.
What, you can't see it. That's too bad......

Go away and have a think about that and come back to us when you’ve made your mind up.

Tony writes:

We need supercomputers just to help crunch the coded information in the DNA programming so as to make sense of it all.

You’ve also touched on the idea that you believe DNA to be a coded programme similar to computer programmes in another thread. If you truly believe that, this must give you the opportunity to start doing some science rather than shouting your incredulity from the rooftops.

DNA mutates, hence bio-diversity. If you believe DNA to be a coded programme, you presumably believe the ‘instructions’ to control mutations are part of the code. If you are serious about ID becoming a science, shouldn’t you be examining the ‘code’ to try to determine how mutations are controlled? For example, are mutations:-

a) random
b) pseudo-random
c) following a specific instruction set

If a) is the answer, no amount of examination of the DNA record will unearth the ‘coded mechanism’. However, should it be b) or c), analysis of the DNA record using code breaking techniques might reveal either the pseudo-random sequences or the specific instruction set used to control mutations.

If such a mechanism were to be revealed, predictions could then me made regarding future mutations for each and every piece of DNA in existence. If these predictions turned out to be accurate, it would add considerable weight to the assertion that DNA is a ‘coded programme’, at least in the first instance.

Isn’t the above what science is all about, so what are you waiting for?

Edited by dogrelata, : Clarification


This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by Bio-molecularTony, posted 10-10-2008 9:39 PM Bio-molecularTony has taken no action

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12788
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 216 of 220 (485753)
10-11-2008 8:12 AM
Reply to: Message 211 by Bio-molecularTony
10-10-2008 9:39 PM


Bio-molecularTony Suspended 48 Hours
Hi Tony,

I appreciate the effort your making, it does seem like an improvement, but it's too late, I already asked you to stop posting to this thread. Because I already issued you one 24 hour suspension for your behavior in this thread a couple weeks ago, and because now you've ignored a moderator request, I'm suspending you again, this time for 48 hours.

EvC Forum has a set of Forum Guidelines. We started with 10 seven years ago, there's still only 10, and they're only a sentence or two each. It's a pretty easy read. Follow them and you'll do fine.

Edited by Admin, : Grammar.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by Bio-molecularTony, posted 10-10-2008 9:39 PM Bio-molecularTony has taken no action

  
fotoboss
Junior Member (Idle past 4740 days)
Posts: 1
Joined: 03-01-2009


Message 217 of 220 (500685)
03-01-2009 12:48 PM


proof of god's design
My first post here. Greetings to all who seek the truth. Dear friends, there can be no doubt concerning the Lord's intelligent design, for proof is all around us. I have recently created a website dedicated to God's design and I would invite all who are interested to check out www.idyb3.net. Please let me know what you think. I challenge anyone to read my short paper and then say that Jesus is not the Son of God and that God did not create our world and all that exists.

In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

fotoboss


Replies to this message:
 Message 218 by Modulous, posted 03-01-2009 1:25 PM fotoboss has taken no action
 Message 219 by Theodoric, posted 03-01-2009 4:06 PM fotoboss has taken no action
 Message 220 by Huntard, posted 03-01-2009 4:24 PM fotoboss has taken no action

  
Modulous
Member (Idle past 1338 days)
Posts: 7789
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 218 of 220 (500687)
03-01-2009 1:25 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by fotoboss
03-01-2009 12:48 PM


Re: proof of god's design
Your short (9,000 word) paper, seems to be dressed up numerology that ignores the majority of the Bible for some strange reason. That you are able to find the number three in a lot of places doesn't convince me that Jesus is the Son of God. Numerological proofs would be best presented in Forum Faith and Belief: if you want to debate it, present your actual argument here, rather than just providing a link to it (and present the core of the argument not the whole thing. You can the expand on it providing further evidence and reasoning if it becomes necessary.

Welcome to the Forum!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by fotoboss, posted 03-01-2009 12:48 PM fotoboss has taken no action

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7309
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 219 of 220 (500692)
03-01-2009 4:06 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by fotoboss
03-01-2009 12:48 PM


Re: proof of god's design
OK I read it.

Jesus is not the Son of God and that God did not create our world and all that exists.

What do I win for winning the challenge?

The only thing what you wrote shows me is that you a have a fetish for the number 3.

If I wrote a book with a lot of 3's in it would it be some sort of holy writ too?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by fotoboss, posted 03-01-2009 12:48 PM fotoboss has taken no action

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 1529 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 220 of 220 (500694)
03-01-2009 4:24 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by fotoboss
03-01-2009 12:48 PM


Re: proof of god's design
So the number 3 comes up a lot of times. And this is proof god created our world and everything that exists how exactly?


I hunt for the truth

This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by fotoboss, posted 03-01-2009 12:48 PM fotoboss has taken no action

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.1
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2022