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Author Topic:   Can survival of the fittest accomodate morals?
Posts: 5113
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.6

Message 25 of 64 (551890)
03-25-2010 1:40 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Drosophilla
03-24-2010 3:16 PM

Re: Lack of worldly knowledge?
I have a notion that if these creationists were thrust into the field of ecology for a year there would be likely to be quite a reduction in the number of them pushing views on debate boards such as these. It's amazing what a bit of real education can do for a person!

For example, Glenn R. Morton, who has participated on this forum. He converted in college, learned practically everything he knew about geology from the ICR et al. and authored a number of published creationist geology articles (eg,

I published 27 articles and notes in the Creation Research Society Quarterly, presented a paper at the first International Conference on Creationism, and ghost wrote the evolution section in Josh McDowell's book Reasons Skeptics Should Consider Christianity.

Graduated from college with a BS Physics and, facing a market that wasn't hiring physics grads, went to work as a field geologist for a petroleum company, even hired several other creationist geologists. Reported at the 1986 International Conference on Creationism how they had to face and work with rock-hard evidence that the ICR had taught them did not exist and could not exist for Scripture to have any meaning and that they had all suffered "severe crises of faith". It was later that he was himself driven to the verge of atheism, but was finally able to find an harmonization that preserved his faith. Though he is definitely no longer a creationist.

His own story is told at:
The Transformation of a Young-earth Creationist
Why I left Young-earth Creationism

He posts other "Personal Stories of the Creation/Evolution Struggle" are posted at http://home.entouch.net/dmd/person.htm

Share and enjoy!

I have tended to find over the years that most creationists are mind-bogglingly ignorant about most matters in the natural world.

I've had the same experience, though with many who would be on either side of the divide. There's some serious ignorance out there.

Though still, I have found that the surest way to anger a creationist is to take his claims seriously and try to discuss them with him. My first interpretation was that they knew that they were lying and now were finding themselves caught in their lie. But I came to realize that they simply did not know what they were talking about. They were just regurgitating some creationist crap that they had read and understood none of it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Drosophilla, posted 03-24-2010 3:16 PM Drosophilla has replied

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 Message 28 by Drosophilla, posted 03-25-2010 9:03 AM dwise1 has replied

Posts: 5113
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.6

Message 29 of 64 (551930)
03-25-2010 10:57 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by Drosophilla
03-25-2010 9:03 AM

Re: Lack of worldly knowledge?
I had heard of Kurt Wise many years ago and read an interview with him several years ago on AnswersinGenesis. As I recall, he had grown up in a fundamentalist home and had taken the scissors to his Bible long before he started work on his doctorate, so he had pursued his education despite his religious beliefs. As I recall him describing it, the evidence in favor of evolution is extensive and solid, so he was making a personal choice in favor of his faith over evolution (though I'm surprised that it had apparently never occurred to him that such a choice is not necessary). Furthermore, the reports I had read of him prior to reading the interview was that he was a stickler for truthfulness and accuracy and had on many occasions been the one who examined and tested creationist evidence and reported them as not being what the creationists were claiming.

So my impression of him was that he was an incredibly and refreshingly honest creationist who did not let his beliefs get in the way of science. Unfortunately, the last that I had heard of him was that he had joined forces with the ICR, so I fear that since he has fallen in with a bad crowd his honesty may have suffered.

BTW, having worked on my family history, I'm fairly sure that we're not related. "Wise" is a common anglization of several different German and Jewish surnames.

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