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Author Topic:   evidence of evolution in the bible?
Taz
Member (Idle past 3313 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


(1)
Message 16 of 22 (552018)
03-25-2010 9:44 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Phage0070
03-25-2010 2:15 AM


Re: Elaborate the OP
Phage0070 writes:
The problem is questioning it based on little more than flights of fancy. Archaeologists don't just pull dates out of their rear, they have hard data backing their claims up. The same thing counts for geologists who say that a given formation is naturally occurring.
If you want to be taken seriously you need to have qualifications, hard data, and a reasonable explanation. If you lack even one of those it is unlikely that you will be taken seriously, and for good reason.
Don't get me wrong, I agree completely. I am as anti-pseudoscience as anyone can get. In fact, I get downright cranky when I encounter crackpots that believe they got it all figured out.
That said, I also get cranky when I come across the holier-than-thou type from the supposed rational side.
Here is an example of what I mean. NASA recently stated that according to the solar cycle there is a possibility that we might run into problems with our sattelite systems and our communication systems due to increased solar activity in (drum rolls) 2012.
Immediately after this announcement, mainstream people started criticizing it because of the 2012 internet hysteria. People are literally so afraid of being associated with the crackpot 2012 galactic allignment bullshit that as soon as they heard 2012 they automatically assumed NASA was talking about the same bullshit. And I'm willing to bet right now at this moment some of you are already thinking of hitting a reply button mocking me accusing of being a 2012 enthusiast.
One of the side effects of the 2012 mayan thingy is that it makes people afraid to acknowledge anything at all that might happen on that year. And this includes warnings made by NASA.
Another example of this is the now past Y2K bug. People who claim to be on the rational, mainstream side often point to Y2K as an example of doomsday prediction that never came to be. Everytime I hear someone say that, I just want to punch him right in the nose. The only people who ever claimed it to be a doomsday kind of thing were either sensational journalists and armegeddon enthusiasts. The rest of us took it seriously because while it wouldn't cause doomsday to occur it might potentially affect our computer systems. Everyone spent millions to fix the problem before it occurred. And despite that, there were some problems that occurred. The most obvious was the sewage system that openned up and dumped all its sewage into central park in New York.
To criticize Y2K is like criticizing the fact that you didn't have floodings after you built a dam. Did you even stop to think that the act of building the dam prevented the flooding from occuring?
I criticize crackpots for believing in shit without evidence. I also criticize holier-than-thou rational types that avoid at all cost to disassociate themselves from the crackpots.
So, let's go back to the monuments I mentioned that you so lightly ignored. There are some stone ring monuments that start out on land and go right into the ocean, implying that they were built before the end of the last ice age when the ocean level was much lower. But that predates the supposed first civilizations by thousands of years.
You know why I think mainstream archaeology is ignoring these monuments? Because these monuments are often used by crackpots like alien and atlantis enthusiasts as "evidence."
No, I'm not saying I have the answer. I'm saying that we should cut the bullshit and start looking at the evidence without the fear of being associated with the crackpots.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Phage0070, posted 03-25-2010 2:15 AM Phage0070 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Phage0070, posted 03-25-2010 10:29 PM Taz has replied

  
Phage0070
Inactive Member


Message 17 of 22 (552022)
03-25-2010 10:29 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Taz
03-25-2010 9:44 PM


Re: Elaborate the OP
Taz writes:
So, let's go back to the monuments I mentioned that you so lightly ignored. There are some stone ring monuments that start out on land and go right into the ocean, implying that they were built before the end of the last ice age when the ocean level was much lower. But that predates the supposed first civilizations by thousands of years.
Perhaps I wasn't clear enough when I spoke about data and qualifications:
Cite?
The only thing I can find with a broad search for underwater stone rings is a formation off the coast of Yonaguni-jima, Japan, which geological experts explain as a natural formation. The counter claim by the utter novices quoted amount to "But the edges of the stone are flat!" as though they had never heard of cleavage planes before.
But you know I could be completely off base considering you are making claims without even the slightest effort at referencing any real data to let me know what you are talking about. Which of course comes back to the real meat of the issue itself.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Taz, posted 03-25-2010 9:44 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Green44, posted 03-25-2010 11:06 PM Phage0070 has not replied
 Message 19 by Taz, posted 03-26-2010 12:29 AM Phage0070 has not replied

  
Green44
Junior Member (Idle past 5120 days)
Posts: 7
Joined: 03-23-2010


Message 18 of 22 (552026)
03-25-2010 11:06 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Phage0070
03-25-2010 10:29 PM


Re: Elaborate the OP
http://www.esd.ornl.gov/projects/qen/nercEURASIA.html
I try to use this information when speculating where humans may have been 50 thousand or so years ago or more. since its somewhere in this 20-50 thousand year bracket where we are missing a big part our common descent..
We have reasonable evidence for more primitive humans before and of course the history we been recording after. So evolution is present that much is for sure.
Im not trying to prove anything,. for me this is more of a conversation to try an understand our own descent. I feel evolution theory is obvious its just a matter of putting it in the right order.
The spot I like to take the most interest in, is the land mass that used to connect Australia and Asia. the sea level used to be around 100 meters lower exposing the land. The coast line south of Asia to Africa is a well known migration rout in the fossil records..
I didnt find a relevant source for any massive rings or a super structure to match your description. you have a link?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Phage0070, posted 03-25-2010 10:29 PM Phage0070 has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3313 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 19 of 22 (552030)
03-26-2010 12:29 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Phage0070
03-25-2010 10:29 PM


Re: Elaborate the OP
Without remembering the name of the site, it's hard to find it on the internet. It's been a while since I read about it. I'll get back to you on this.
In the mean time, enjoy calling me a crank
Edit.
Well, there are supposedly stone circles in Brittany that trail off into water. But there is one particular island I am thinking of that has stone circles spiralling into the sea. I'll have to dig through my old books to find it.
It's really annoying that google only comes up with results that are most popular, which are either crackpot alien theories or that site in Japan.
Edited by Taz, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Phage0070, posted 03-25-2010 10:29 PM Phage0070 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by lyx2no, posted 03-27-2010 11:06 AM Taz has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 20 of 22 (552198)
03-27-2010 9:35 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Taz
03-25-2010 12:45 AM


Re: Elaborate the OP
With all the crackpots around claiming biblical floods and alien abductions, I think mainstream archaeologists are afraid of even hinting that there could be something to ancient monuments that appeared to have been built before the end of the last ice age. Why? I think they're just afraid of being associated with the biblical and alien crackpots.
An excellent point you make here, a completely feasible theory.

"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." -- Charlton Heston

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Taz, posted 03-25-2010 12:45 AM Taz has not replied

  
lyx2no
Member (Idle past 4738 days)
Posts: 1277
From: A vast, undifferentiated plane.
Joined: 02-28-2008


Message 21 of 22 (552206)
03-27-2010 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by Taz
03-26-2010 12:29 AM


Re: Elaborate the OP
Why would a half submerged monument indicate that it was built before the last ice age? We've dozens of upon dozens of submerged Greek and Roman monuments. Venice will be before long.
20k years ago, when Scottland was being pressed down by the weight of the ice, Brittany, far to the south, was being pushed up just like when everyone sits at one end of a boat. As the North of Britain now bobs up, the South subsides. 5k years ago when the Er Lannic stones were set, and well after the return to fairly modern sea levels, the land beneath them was high and dry. Half of it still is. The South of England and Brittany are still subsiding. What you need is a stone circle in the middle of the North Sea.

You are now a million miles away from where you were in space-time when you started reading this sentence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Taz, posted 03-26-2010 12:29 AM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Taz, posted 03-27-2010 12:58 PM lyx2no has seen this message but not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3313 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 22 of 22 (552218)
03-27-2010 12:58 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by lyx2no
03-27-2010 11:06 AM


Re: Elaborate the OP
lyx2no writes:
Why would a half submerged monument indicate that it was built before the last ice age?
From what I remember, and I still need to dig up my old books to find the name of the site, they weren't just half submerged. The stones were completely submerged deep under water. And I know the site isn't Er Lannic.
But you're right, entirely possible that the land was sinking or that my memory ain't that great. I just remember reading about it and the author complaining that archaeologists weren't even considering the possibility that these stone structures were much older than the supposed age given to them.
I'll get back to you on this... if I can find the damn site.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by lyx2no, posted 03-27-2010 11:06 AM lyx2no has seen this message but not replied

  
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