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Author Topic:   Not enough room in DNA
Taq
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Joined: 03-06-2009
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Message 12 of 139 (555366)
04-13-2010 9:33 AM


Life is chemistry. In chemistry you can get something this complex:
From a molecule as simple as this:
Perhaps the author of OP should think about this for a second.

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Parasomnium, posted 04-13-2010 9:44 AM Taq has replied

  
Taq
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Posts: 10073
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 15 of 139 (555398)
04-13-2010 12:42 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Parasomnium
04-13-2010 9:44 AM


Re: Physics, not chemistry
Actually, that's an example of physics.
In the same way that life is physics. The tertiary form that proteins adopt is due to the physical interactions between the amino acids in the peptide in a given environment. Whether or not a protein binds to a given section of DNA is determined by it's amino acid sequence and the environment (e.g. the lac operon in E. coli).

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Taq
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Posts: 10073
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 38 of 139 (555761)
04-15-2010 9:52 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by slevesque
04-14-2010 4:24 PM


Suppose that God had made a universe where life could arise by natural means, ie no need of supernatural intervention. Idem for all the mysteries concerning origins (Big Bang, abiogenesis and evolution)Would you not then accuse this God of being misleading, since he made a universe which could have made itself with life in it that could have made itself.
Which of these is more impressive:
1. Someone racks all 15 pool balls, breaks them, and pockets every single ball on the break.
2. Someone racks all 15 pool balls, grabs each one individually, and then drops them into the pockets.
A natural universe with a Big Bang, abiogenesis, evolution, etc. is scenario number 1. Magical poofing is number 2.
But imagine a universe (for you, strangely ressembling this one ) where the evolution of species is possible. Would you not then say it is a bit misleading of God to make a world where evolution is possible without him being necessary. In fact, I think I remember you saying similar objections to God's existence since you think we live in such a universe.
Is it misleading for my wife to tell me that she grew some flowers in the garden when it turns out that flowers grow naturally from seeds?

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 Message 45 by slevesque, posted 04-15-2010 4:02 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
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Posts: 10073
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 39 of 139 (555763)
04-15-2010 9:54 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by jpatterson
04-14-2010 8:25 PM


Re: Prankster God
This is a reply to the whole thread. None of you are addressing my fundamental point: THERE'S NOT ENOUGH ROOM IN THE DNA.
First you need to evidence this claim, then we will address it. As it stands now this is nothing more than a poorly informed opinion.

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Taq
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Posts: 10073
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 43 of 139 (555835)
04-15-2010 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by jpatterson
04-15-2010 12:34 PM


Re: Revision to not enough room in DNA
But I would still claim that all of the information attributed to DNA cannot, in fact, be specified in 200 books.
In the same way, you can not tell time with a diagram of a clock. The order of bases in DNA is just a shadow of the real thing. The information in DNA is expressed in chemistry and physics, not in abstract forms like writing in a book. You seem to be confusing actual DNA with the abstract way that humans describe DNA.
For example, let's say that I have a really tiny paper printer that can print letters the size of a molecule. I use this printer to make a long list of A's, T's, C's, and G's on a tiny piece of paper and insert it into a cell. Will that cell treat it like DNA? No way. We use letters on a page as an analogy for DNA, and abstract representation. You are carrying this analogy way too far.

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Taq
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Posts: 10073
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 52 of 139 (555930)
04-16-2010 9:43 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by slevesque
04-15-2010 4:02 PM


But if I take your analogy, and adapt it to the situation. Suppose that all balls are on the table, but there are absolutely no way they could get in the pockets by moving around randomly on the table (suppose no friction). Like Duct tape over the holes or something. Now suppose I come back 15 minutes later and all the balls are in the pockets, but still with Duct tape over them. This would be a 'hint' that someone had come and put them all in.
I would think that someone had cheated. Are you saying that God is a cheater?
Irrelevant, since your wife is confined by natural laws and cannot accomplish anything outside of them.
So you are saying that God could NOT use natural laws?

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Taq
Member
Posts: 10073
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 103 of 139 (556825)
04-21-2010 9:20 AM
Reply to: Message 100 by Kaichos Man
04-21-2010 5:28 AM


Re: Refuting William Paley for the umpteenth time
"the simplest extant cell, Mycoplasma genitalium a tiny bacterium that inhabits the human urinary tract requires ‘only’ 482 proteins to perform its necessary functions (562,000 bases of DNAto assemble those proteins). ,,,
M. genitalium is the product of 3.5 billion years of evolution. Of course it isn't simple. What you need to show is that it is impossible for any replicator to have fewer proteins, otherwise your argument is irrelevant.
"the simplest extant cell, Mycoplasma genitalium a tiny bacterium that inhabits the human urinary tract requires ‘only’ 482 proteins to perform its necessary functions (562,000 bases of DNAto assemble those proteins). ,,,
You haven't even shown that amino acids are necessary for life to begin with. RNA can serve as both an inheritable molecule and as an enzyme filling the role of DNA and proteins in modern organisms.
And you, Coragyps, would attempt to compare this process with simple circles of gravel, or ZenMonkey's haphazard patterns in the bark of trees?
How did you determine that they were haphazard patterns? Would you say the same of a Jackson Pollock painting?

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