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Author Topic:   Intelligent Design == Human Design?
cavediver
Member (Idle past 2063 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 151 of 196 (563160)
06-03-2010 3:47 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by tesla
06-02-2010 7:24 PM


Re: topic
In the singularity, there is only a single energy without time. and apparently without any space as we know it.

And how is this any different to every other point in space-time? The singularity is much less special than you appreciate...


This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by tesla, posted 06-02-2010 7:24 PM tesla has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by tesla, posted 06-03-2010 10:30 PM cavediver has responded

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 12 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 152 of 196 (563213)
06-03-2010 10:27 PM
Reply to: Message 150 by AZPaul3
06-03-2010 11:36 AM


Re: Laymen
quote:
Your "fact" is not evidenced. It will not, cannot, be accepted.

Is it not? space is a vacuum. it has to have an edge. have you ever seen a vacuum without containment?

The universe is expanding, is this not true? can it expand with no area for the expansion?

its simple. there is an edge our finite universe is expanding inside an "apparently infinite" area.

There must be a way to tie the edge to the math for a better view of what that means.

quote:

You say you respect the science and try to use the science, yet you twist then abandon the protocol for your religious speculations.

Fail.


It is not a religious speculation. its a physical true analysis of what is going on with our universe we exist in and how things are. what sucks about science is that scientists are too scared to fly outside of some imaginary box. i wont make that mistake.

i wont always be right, but I'm not always wrong. examine what i say or don't. T=0 the "start" had to happen because evolution DID. and I'm not going to pretend it did not.

Edited by tesla, : No reason given.


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by AZPaul3, posted 06-03-2010 11:36 AM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by AZPaul3, posted 06-04-2010 6:04 AM tesla has responded
 Message 156 by cavediver, posted 06-04-2010 7:26 AM tesla has responded
 Message 191 by Drosophilla, posted 06-08-2010 6:35 PM tesla has responded

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 12 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 153 of 196 (563214)
06-03-2010 10:30 PM
Reply to: Message 151 by cavediver
06-03-2010 3:47 PM


Re: topic
quote:
And how is this any different to every other point in space-time? The singularity is much less special than you appreciate...

Thats your opinion. I believe its much more important than anyone has ever realized and you just can't figure it out.


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by cavediver, posted 06-03-2010 3:47 PM cavediver has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 154 by cavediver, posted 06-04-2010 3:52 AM tesla has responded

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 2063 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


(1)
Message 154 of 196 (563237)
06-04-2010 3:52 AM
Reply to: Message 153 by tesla
06-03-2010 10:30 PM


Re: topic
Thats your opinion.

No, that's based on me being an expert on singularities The trouble is that you have yet to realise just how little you know. A good degree from a good university is the usual cure for that. If you come out of your degree thinking that you actually know something about the subject you have gone to study, you and your university failed. Your post-grad work is where you actually start learning something. And your post-doc time is where you perhaps start knowing a little.

I believe its much more important than anyone has ever realized and you just can't figure it out.

And this kind of attitude will always prevent you from learning anything - you will just be one more crank. Cranks always think they can skip the 100 years of study that has already gone into a subject. Fact is, they're just lazy arseholes who haven't got 1/100th of the grey matter necessary to cut it. Is that you, Tesla? Or can you be different from all the rest?

To conclude - you will never understand the nature of space-time until you can appreciate why the singularity is just like every other point is space-time. Once you understand that, then you can go on to see how it is different...


This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by tesla, posted 06-03-2010 10:30 PM tesla has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by tesla, posted 06-04-2010 8:58 AM cavediver has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4817
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


(1)
Message 155 of 196 (563252)
06-04-2010 6:04 AM
Reply to: Message 152 by tesla
06-03-2010 10:27 PM


Re: Laymen
space is a vacuum. it has to have an edge. have you ever seen a vacuum without containment?

We're talking the Universe here, tesla, not some damn bell jar on your table! Pull your head out of it man!

The universe is expanding, is this not true? can it expand with no area for the expansion?

So you do not know what "expansion" means and you do not understand the concept of an un-embedded manifold.

there is an edge our finite universe is expanding inside an "apparently infinite" area.

Sorry, tesla, there is no edge.

If spacetime is flat then the universe is infinite and unbounded. If curved then it is finite and like the surface of a sphere there is no edge.

At present most evidence points toward a flat Universe, yet, within the error bars, there may be a slight curvature. More study is required.

There must be a way to tie the edge to the math for a better view of what that means.

Since this edge does not exist that will be difficult.

You do not understand the most basic cosmological concepts. You keep relying on your intuition to build your model. Again, tesla, we have already seen, have proven beyond a doubt, that the Universe defies human intuition.

Only the evidence rules here, tesla, despite and contrary to your intuition.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by tesla, posted 06-03-2010 10:27 PM tesla has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 158 by tesla, posted 06-04-2010 8:30 AM AZPaul3 has responded

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 2063 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


(1)
Message 156 of 196 (563261)
06-04-2010 7:26 AM
Reply to: Message 152 by tesla
06-03-2010 10:27 PM


Re: Laymen
Oh dear, I hadn't read this earlier when I made my previous post:

Is it not? space is a vacuum. it has to have an edge. have you ever seen a vacuum without containment?

The universe is expanding, is this not true? can it expand with no area for the expansion?

its simple. there is an edge our finite universe is expanding inside an "apparently infinite" area.

Sadly, you know far less than I anticipated. You would have been laughed out of town 80 years ago, never mind in 2010.

"It has to have an edge" belongs up there with believing we'd suffocate if we travelled over 25mph on the railroad...


This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by tesla, posted 06-03-2010 10:27 PM tesla has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 157 by tesla, posted 06-04-2010 8:24 AM cavediver has responded

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 12 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 157 of 196 (563270)
06-04-2010 8:24 AM
Reply to: Message 156 by cavediver
06-04-2010 7:26 AM


Re: Laymen
quote:
It has to have an edge" belongs up there with believing we'd suffocate if we travelled over 25mph on the railroad

I thought you were smart. but from reading your posts i now wonder.

Do you have any ability to reason? you sound like the old world laughing at the concept of a round planet. The evidence supports my observation.


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by cavediver, posted 06-04-2010 7:26 AM cavediver has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 159 by Huntard, posted 06-04-2010 8:34 AM tesla has responded
 Message 160 by cavediver, posted 06-04-2010 8:40 AM tesla has responded

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 12 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 158 of 196 (563272)
06-04-2010 8:30 AM
Reply to: Message 155 by AZPaul3
06-04-2010 6:04 AM


Re: Laymen
quote:
We're talking the Universe here, tesla, not some damn bell jar on your table! Pull your head out of it man!


Yes we are, and my head is fine. The dynamics of how things work Don't all of a sudden change just because it walks off the face of the earth. you show me a vacuum of negative pressure without containment then. go ahead. show me.

quote:
So you do not know what "expansion" means and you do not understand the concept of an un-embedded manifold.


Oh? how about you educate me then. The BBT is based on whats that science tells everyone? the universe i expanding? how many links you want? is expanding so hard a word to define? What are you going to tell me next?

quote:
Sorry, tesla, there is no edge

oh? and what proof do you base your hypothesis? since your so smart and all knowing how about my flying car now.


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by AZPaul3, posted 06-04-2010 6:04 AM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 169 by AZPaul3, posted 06-04-2010 2:13 PM tesla has responded
 Message 170 by nwr, posted 06-04-2010 2:37 PM tesla has responded

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 714 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


(1)
Message 159 of 196 (563273)
06-04-2010 8:34 AM
Reply to: Message 157 by tesla
06-04-2010 8:24 AM


Re: Laymen
tesla writes:

The evidence supports my observation.


Would you mind providing your evidence? It will convince me you're right. Oh, it will also net you the nobel prize.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by tesla, posted 06-04-2010 8:24 AM tesla has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 162 by tesla, posted 06-04-2010 8:53 AM Huntard has not yet responded

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 2063 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 160 of 196 (563274)
06-04-2010 8:40 AM
Reply to: Message 157 by tesla
06-04-2010 8:24 AM


Re: Laymen
I thought you were smart. but from reading your posts i now wonder.

You'll never know, 'cos I quickly loose interest in trying to educate those who have no desire to learn...


This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by tesla, posted 06-04-2010 8:24 AM tesla has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 161 by tesla, posted 06-04-2010 8:51 AM cavediver has not yet responded

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 12 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 161 of 196 (563278)
06-04-2010 8:51 AM
Reply to: Message 160 by cavediver
06-04-2010 8:40 AM


Re: Laymen
You have no desire to learn. you have only the desire to teach. but if you teach what science agrees is missing some links, then why not start looking for those links?

Everyone wants to play deaf dumb and blind with what i have observed. But that doesn't change the fact what i have observed is true. space IS a vacuum. and no vacuum has ever been found that can exist without edges or containment.


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by cavediver, posted 06-04-2010 8:40 AM cavediver has not yet responded

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 12 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 162 of 196 (563280)
06-04-2010 8:53 AM
Reply to: Message 159 by Huntard
06-04-2010 8:34 AM


Re: Laymen
no it wont because the evidence is so obvios it has been overlooked. the obvios is something science loves to ignore.

the evidence of the edge of space is the fact it is a vacuum. and no vacuum has been found to exist without edges or containment.

the universe IS expanding. you cannot have expansion without an area to expand in.


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by Huntard, posted 06-04-2010 8:34 AM Huntard has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by cavediver, posted 06-04-2010 9:02 AM tesla has responded

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 12 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 163 of 196 (563281)
06-04-2010 8:58 AM
Reply to: Message 154 by cavediver
06-04-2010 3:52 AM


Re: topic
quote:
No, that's based on me being an expert on singularities

Now your full of it. there are no experts on singularities. all the scientists i know have accepted they cant say too much about them. now YOU want to act like you know the secrets of the universe?

The problem is your swelled head has affected your reasoning.

space time is just a coordinate. its math. and math says nothing without something physically real to back up the observation. i accept i don't know everything or even as much as I'd like yet. but i promise you I'm not going to trust math without verification somehow of what its saying. math alone is useless.

I'm loosing faith in your ability to reason. Are there ANY true men of science here?


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by cavediver, posted 06-04-2010 3:52 AM cavediver has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by cavediver, posted 06-04-2010 9:12 AM tesla has responded

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 2063 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 164 of 196 (563282)
06-04-2010 9:02 AM
Reply to: Message 162 by tesla
06-04-2010 8:53 AM


Re: Laymen
then why not start looking for those links?

Hey, what a great idea. Perhaps I should devote a large fraction of my life to cosmological research, and start writing papers... oh, wait.

Moron


This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by tesla, posted 06-04-2010 8:53 AM tesla has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 165 by tesla, posted 06-04-2010 9:05 AM cavediver has not yet responded

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 12 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 165 of 196 (563284)
06-04-2010 9:05 AM
Reply to: Message 164 by cavediver
06-04-2010 9:02 AM


Re: Laymen
quote:
Hey, what a great idea. Perhaps I should devote a large fraction of my life to cosmological research, and start writing papers... oh, wait

Right. i GET what you are. Now examine my evidence. or show me a vacuum without edges and containment.

Apply the data to your research. or start new research if it doesn't fit. If you wont, someone or myself will eventually. you gain nothing if your research is only speculative and neither will i. The math will fit the observation if its true.


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by cavediver, posted 06-04-2010 9:02 AM cavediver has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 167 by Huntard, posted 06-04-2010 9:12 AM tesla has responded

  
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