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Author Topic:   What exactly is ID?
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Message 353 of 1273 (540556)
12-26-2009 7:11 AM
Reply to: Message 334 by Smooth Operator
12-25-2009 4:49 PM


Moderator On Duty
Smooth Operator writes:
Which is just plain stupid you Hindu-Muslim...
I was hoping another moderator might step in, but it is the holiday season and I don't think the other moderators are around, and this is rather blatant and extreme, so I'm going to begin moderating this thread.
This is from the Forum Guidelines:
  1. Always treat other members with respect. Argue the position, not the person. Avoid abusive, harassing and invasive behavior. Avoid needling, hectoring and goading tactics.
Any rule 10 violations from you that appear after this post will bring a 24 hour suspension.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 334 by Smooth Operator, posted 12-25-2009 4:49 PM Smooth Operator has not replied

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Message 359 of 1273 (540575)
12-26-2009 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 357 by Smooth Operator
12-26-2009 10:43 AM


Moderator Still On Duty
Hi Smooth Operator,
Hopefully you have seen Message 353. If not please give it a read.
The goal of EvC Forum is productive, informative, on-topic discussion in a civil fashion. This is the last warning. After this point I'll be issuing 24 hour suspensions to those in this thread who seem to be working against this goal. Those who think they may have posted in violation should go back and edit any suspect messages before I see them.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 357 by Smooth Operator, posted 12-26-2009 10:43 AM Smooth Operator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 363 by Smooth Operator, posted 12-26-2009 5:02 PM Admin has replied

Admin
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Posts: 13089
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Message 370 of 1273 (540657)
12-27-2009 7:31 AM
Reply to: Message 363 by Smooth Operator
12-26-2009 5:02 PM


Re: Moderator Still On Duty
Smooth Operator writes:
No problem. I just hope you alo notice other posts, not just mine...
You're not the only offender, but to use my favorite analogy, the police do not usually pay much attention to drivers going 70, especially when there are others going 100.
In metric: The police do not usually pay much attention to drivers going 110, especially when there are others going 160.
This is not the Autobahn, so please maintain a reasonable level of conformance with the Forum Guidelines or your privileges for driving on this road might become endangered.
Please, everyone, no replies.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 363 by Smooth Operator, posted 12-26-2009 5:02 PM Smooth Operator has not replied

Admin
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Posts: 13089
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Message 395 of 1273 (540796)
12-29-2009 7:21 AM


Moderator Request about Accusations of Lying
Please, everyone, no more accusations of lying. They are personal and off-topic, and they require intimate knowledge of someone else that you are unlikely to have.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

Admin
Director
Posts: 13089
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Message 426 of 1273 (540974)
12-30-2009 12:29 PM
Reply to: Message 424 by Iblis
12-30-2009 11:49 AM


Re: Materialism and Creationism
Iblis writes:
No, your point was that ID can't be Christian because it's compatible with astrology. Her point was that it isn't science because it's compatible with astrology.
Detailed information about what Behe said about astrology during his testimony at the Dover trial can be found at:
Specifically, this document beginning on page 38:
The topic of astrology comes up while Behe is providing his own definition of theory:
Behe testimony writes:
Q And using your definition, intelligent design is a scientific theory, correct?
A Yes.
Q Under that same definition astrology is a scientific theory under your definition, correct?
A Under my definition, a scientific theory is a proposed explanation which focuses or points to physical, observable data and logical inferences. There are many things throughout the history of science which we now think to be incorrect which nonetheless would fit that -- which would fit that definition. Yes, astrology is in fact one, and so is the ether theory of the propagation of light, and many other -- many other theories as well.
Q The ether theory of light has been discarded, correct?
A That is correct.
Q But you are clear, under your definition, the definition that sweeps in intelligent design, astrology is also a scientific theory, correct?
A Yes, that s correct. And let me explain under my definition of the word "theory," it is -- a sense of the word "theory" does not include the theory being true, it means a proposition based on physical evidence to explain some facts by logical inferences. There have been many theories throughout the history of science which looked good at the time which further progress has shown to be incorrect. Nonetheless, we can t go back and say that because they were incorrect they were not theories. So many many things that we now realized to be incorrect, incorrect theories, are nonetheless theories.
There's a lot more. Just trying to establish a factual basis for discussion.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 424 by Iblis, posted 12-30-2009 11:49 AM Iblis has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 429 by Iblis, posted 12-30-2009 12:58 PM Admin has seen this message but not replied

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Message 483 of 1273 (541321)
01-02-2010 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 482 by Huntard
01-02-2010 2:13 PM


Re: ID is Here
Just in case there's any doubt, anyone who would like to discuss health care funding issues in the context of recent proposals from Washington should take them to another thread.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 482 by Huntard, posted 01-02-2010 2:13 PM Huntard has not replied

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Message 507 of 1273 (541773)
01-06-2010 8:48 AM
Reply to: Message 503 by Dr Adequate
01-06-2010 7:02 AM


Moderator Warning
Hi Dr Adequate,
My goal in turning from participant to moderator was to counter generalization, obfuscation and evasion and return attention to the evidence and arguments. Contributions like this work against this goal:
Dr Adequate writes:
Or are you trying to tell us that they're a bunch of dishonest halfwits flailing away at an idiotic straw man of their own construction?
Next contribution like this will draw another suspension.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 503 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-06-2010 7:02 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

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Message 519 of 1273 (541843)
01-06-2010 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 518 by Brad H
01-06-2010 2:17 PM


Please let moderators handle moderation issues. I already addressed this, please see Message 507.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 518 by Brad H, posted 01-06-2010 2:17 PM Brad H has not replied

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Message 548 of 1273 (542154)
01-07-2010 10:52 PM


Moderator Back for Just One Message
Please, everyone, don't make personal comments, keep the focus on the topic.
And about the topic, given the thread's history, information seems a legitimate topic here.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

Admin
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Message 561 of 1273 (542183)
01-08-2010 6:06 AM


Moderator Back On Duty
Hi everyone. I'm returning to moderation mode in this thread.
I have to express my surprise at how rapidly the tenor of discussion deteriorated after Smooth Operator's return. I thought I was making it clear how I interpret and enforce the Forum Guidelines. If anyone can think of ways in which I could improve how well I communicate this message, please post to the Report discussion problems here: No.2 thread.
In the meantime, I'm suspending Smooth Operator and Dr Adequate for 24 hours.
To Smooth Operator and Dr Adequate: Please, you two, take what I've been saying to heart. If it isn't clear to you what I'm looking for then post questions to the Report discussion problems here: No.2 thread. If upon your return I don't see significant and obvious efforts to conform your behavior to moderator requests and the Forum Guidelines then the next suspension will be for a week.
To everyone else: With regard to behavior, few participants are covering themselves with glory in their participation in this thread. When dealing with certain participation styles it takes an even greater effort to maintain self control and keep your attention focused on the topic, on your evidence, on your arguments. It makes it impossible for moderators to do their job when one or two participants drag everyone else into exhibiting bad form. Once that happens there's no way to tell who's responsible. Make each message you compose one you'll be proud of.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

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Message 568 of 1273 (542357)
01-09-2010 10:43 AM
Reply to: Message 565 by Smooth Operator
01-09-2010 10:34 AM


Moderator Request for Information
Hi Smooth Operator,
The posts in this thread tend to be lengthy making it difficult for a moderator to discern where he might best make a contribution, but I think it would help move the discussion forward if you would please provide a link to where you presented the calculations mentioned here:
Smooth Operator writes:
PaulK writes:
I'm happy with the situation. If you can't do the necessary calculations you've got no case. So it is more accurate to say that YOU are stuck.
I already did them. The reason we are stuck is because you are asking me for something completely different.
That should help clarify whether you're both thinking of the same calculations, and whether PaulK is asking you now for something different.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 565 by Smooth Operator, posted 01-09-2010 10:34 AM Smooth Operator has not replied

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Message 569 of 1273 (542358)
01-09-2010 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 566 by Smooth Operator
01-09-2010 10:34 AM


Re: Genetic Entropy
Smooth Operator replying to Dr Adequate writes:
The last time I did you simply disregarded my link. I'm not going to bother doing it again.
It was responses similar to this that resulted in your recent suspension. If you're not going to make an effort to discuss constructively with Dr Adequate then do not reply to him, else your posting privileges will be temporarily suspended again. I'm treating Dr Adequate the same way.
Please, no responses to moderator messages in this thread. Please take comments and concerns to Report discussion problems here: No.2.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 566 by Smooth Operator, posted 01-09-2010 10:34 AM Smooth Operator has not replied

Admin
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Posts: 13089
From: EvC Forum
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Message 591 of 1273 (542453)
01-10-2010 6:58 AM
Reply to: Message 587 by Dr Adequate
01-10-2010 6:05 AM


Re: l
Dr Adequate writes:
Something has gone badly wrong with the formatting of this post.
I can't see any problems in the rendering of Message 573 in Chrome, IE or FF. Can you describe the problem you're seeing and tell me which browser you're using?

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 587 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-10-2010 6:05 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 593 by PaulK, posted 01-10-2010 7:10 AM Admin has seen this message but not replied

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Message 596 of 1273 (542458)
01-10-2010 7:24 AM


Moderator Request for Specifics
Hi all!
Years of discussion board experience tell me that the phrase, "I already explained that," can be a big red flag, because it is often the case that people who actually know, understand and can articulate their position will do so at the drop of a hat over and over again.
The same experience tells me that general statements and unsupported assertions indicate a person who has much more in the way of opinion than knowledge of facts and an understanding of their relationships.
Smooth Operator, I've already posted you a couple messages.
Brad H, please provide links to or cut-n-pastes from the messages where you've "already given those examples [of CSI] several times." PaulK was looking for examples of "how to properly apply Dembski's method to living things." He already replied to your lengthy one-paragraph argument in Message 542. It reads like the outline of an interesting hypothesis, not a rigorous method for calculating CSI. If you don't use Dembski's method then simply show how to apply the method you do use.
Sky, this thread is nearly up to 600 messages and is well past the point of just stating a position with no supporting evidence or argument.
Everyone else: When those arguing for ID make a reasonable request then please try to fulfill it. For example, concerning Brad H's request for an example of a mutation that adds information to the genome, telling him to go look up nylon eating bacteria is not a satisfactory answer (to be fair, that answer was actually in another thread, but you get the idea).
Sometimes these discussions remind of an old joke:
A guy is touring a prison. An inmate shouts "45!" and the rest all laugh. Another one shouts "57!" and they all laugh again.
Guy asks the warden "What's with the numbers?"
Warden says "They've heard the jokes so many times, they just give em numbers to save time telling em."
Guy shouts "28!" and the whole place goes silent.
The warden looks at him and says "Some people just can't tell a joke."
I know some of us have been here a long time and have seen these arguments before, but you can't rebut an argument by just shouting out "28!"

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

Replies to this message:
 Message 602 by Brad H, posted 01-10-2010 8:37 AM Admin has replied
 Message 666 by Drosophilla, posted 01-12-2010 6:23 PM Admin has seen this message but not replied

Admin
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Posts: 13089
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Message 601 of 1273 (542470)
01-10-2010 8:34 AM
Reply to: Message 599 by Sky-Writing
01-10-2010 8:07 AM


-Sky- Suspended for 24 Hours
Hi Sky,
As I pointed out in Message 596, this is thread is past 600 messages, far past the time when it is appropriate to just state a position. Now you're replying to Message 1 as if the discussion were just beginning.
I'm going to suspend you for 24 hours.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 599 by Sky-Writing, posted 01-10-2010 8:07 AM Sky-Writing has not replied

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